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Author: TomTom Date: Sep 11, 2007 09:43
Chokmah is associated with the Will itself. Of itself it is purely
potential; it has no purpose, no direction, and no manifestation. It simply
IS. The word "chokmah" itself means "wisdom" and is paired with the word
"binah", meaning "understanding". Wisdom is not passive, but active.
Wisdom arises from right action whereas understanding arises from clear
perception.
The feeling that one might best associate with Chokmah is the male orgasm, a
mindless paroxysm rushing forth in all directions, filled with creative
potential but having no form in which to manifest that creativity. Until
shaped and directed by the formative receptivity of Binah, the divine power
of Chokmah can do nothing,
The virtue of Chokmah is described variously as devotion, good, or
completion of the Great Work. Its vice is evil, when one admits of any vice
to this sephiroth at all. Chokmah represents all possibilities...
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Author: Rufus OpusRufus Opus Date: Sep 11, 2007 10:23
Interesting, Tom, as usual.
More comments below.
On Sep 11, 12:43 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
> The virtue of Chokmah is described variously as devotion, good, or
> completion of the Great Work. Its vice is evil, when one admits of any vice
> to this sephiroth at all. Chokmah represents all possibilities...
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Author: TomTom Date: Sep 11, 2007 12:59
> Interesting, Tom, as usual.
>
> More comments below.
>
> On Sep 11, 12:43 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
>>> The virtue of Chokmah is described variously as devotion, good, or
>> completion of the Great Work. Its vice is evil, when one admits of any
>> vice
>> to this sephiroth at all. Chokmah represents all possibilities,
>> including
>> all those possibilities for good as well as all possibilities for evil.
>> We
>> may argue that "good" and "evil" are irrelevant value judgments in
>> non-dualistic consciousness, but as is inevitable when discussing
>> consciousness in the Supernals, the words we use fall far short as
>> adequate
>> descriptors. That which is "good" in Chokmah is that which encounters ...
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Author: Erwin HessleErwin Hessle Date: Sep 11, 2007 18:08
On Sep 11, 12:43 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
A valiant attempt, to be sure.
> Chokmah is associated with the Will itself. Of itself it is purely
> potential; it has no purpose, no direction,
I don't know about this. No "purpose", I can go along with, but no
direction? If there is no direction, there is no will. The "right
action" you describe below implies a particular direction. Indeed, if
Chokmah is associated with motion, then you can argue that direction
is all motion, and therefore Will, is.
> and no manifestation. It simply
> IS.
How so, if it is "purely potential" and without manifestation?
> The word "chokmah" itself means "wisdom" and is paired with the word
> "binah", meaning "understanding". Wisdom is not passive, but active.
> Wisdom arises from right action whereas understanding arises from clear
> perception.
Equally arguable that wisdom arises from clear perception, and right
action arises from understanding, further illustrating the pairing. I
don't like the term "right action", but I know what you mean.
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Author: TomTom Date: Sep 11, 2007 22:01
> On Sep 11, 12:43 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
>
> A valiant attempt, to be sure.
Yet, inadequate to the job. You just can't say anything about this shit
that isn't somehow wrong.
>
>> Chokmah is associated with the Will itself. Of itself it is purely
>> potential; it has no purpose, no direction,
>
> I don't know about this. No "purpose", I can go along with, but no
> direction?
Or all directions.
> If there is no direction, there is no will.
It is undirected, but it goes everywhere. It gains direction from the
interplay with Binah.
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Author: Rufus OpusRufus Opus Date: Sep 12, 2007 08:27
On Sep 11, 3:59 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
> you're
> making two assumptions: 1. that there is a sentient "Creative Force" and 2.
> that it has likes and dislikes. The evidence in support of either
> assumption is pretty weak.
Are you saying there was no Will before the manifestation of Chokmah?
Do you view the emanation of the Three Supernals as the birth of
"God," laying the foundation for sentience?
I'm of the opinion that within the divine darkness of the Ain, God
existed in sentience. Before anything else, there was Ain, so my
reference point for creation is that which lies within the Ain, which
is "no thing", but not necessarily no consciousness, or no sentience.
How is consciousness demonstrated, or measured? What can be used to
determine the presence of sentience?
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Author: mikamika Date: Sep 12, 2007 09:07
snipped a bunch and left the parts that relate to my comment below.
On Sep 11, 10:01 pm, "Tom" wrote:
> "Erwin Hessle" wrote in message
>
...
>> If there is no direction, there is no will.
>
> It is undirected, but it goes everywhere. It gains direction from the
> interplay...
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Author: mikamika Date: Sep 12, 2007 09:14
On Sep 11, 9:43 am, "Tom" wrote:
>
> The feeling that one might best associate with Chokmah is the male orgasm, a
> mindless paroxysm rushing forth in all directions, filled with creative
> potential but having no form in which to manifest that creativity.
With what would you associate the female orgasm?
(You knew this question was coming, didn't you?)
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Author: TomTom Date: Sep 12, 2007 09:35
> On Sep 11, 3:59 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
>>> you're
>> making two assumptions: 1. that there is a sentient "Creative Force" and
>> 2.
>> that it has likes and dislikes. The evidence in support of either
>> assumption is pretty weak.
>
> Are you saying there was no Will before the manifestation of Chokmah?
That's correct. Except that Chokmah itself doesn't manifest until it
interacts with Binah.
> Do you view the emanation of the Three Supernals as the birth of
> "God," laying the foundation for sentience?
In some senses, yes, but there are lots of other ways to understand it, too.
> I'm of the opinion that within the divine darkness of the Ain, God
> existed in sentience.
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Author: Rufus OpusRufus Opus Date: Sep 12, 2007 09:43
On Sep 12, 12:07 pm, mika gmail.com> wrote:
> My understanding of this system is that Chokmah and Binah came into
> being simultaneously, despite the fact that Chokmah precedes Binah on
> the tree (for good reasons, some of which you discuss, but not related
> to my point). In some ways, like trying to discuss will without
> direction, or how something can "exist" as pure potential without
> manifestation, it makes no sense to try to discuss them separately as
> if one came before the other; when one arrives, the other arrives. My
> only question is if that applies to working up the tree as well :)
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