On Jul 21, 2:22Â pm, Janine Starscream
yahoo.com> wrote:> On Jul 21, 7:36Â am, "Searles O'Dubhain"
> wrote:
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>
>
>
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>> "Chade"
newsguy.com> wrote in message>
>
>>> On 18 Jul, 12:50, "Searles O'Dubhain" wrote:
>>>> "Chade"
newsguy.com> wrote in message>
>
>>>>> What Searles seems to be describing is largely a role in society.
>>>>> Though I'd agree it's true that the reconstruction of the
>>>>> 'traditional' methods is largely guess work. Also I expect that the
>>>>> respect for Druids as a group is now largely confined to sub-cultures.
>>>>> Although, of course, individuals can win the respect of the wider
>>>>> society interdependently of the label.
>
>>>> The role of Druids in past societies (like Irish and British societies)
>>>> is
>>>> partly described in the surviving literature and traditions. These
>>>> descriptions are filtered through all manner of social biases. yet they
>>>> do
>>>> survive.
>
>>>> We also have some techniques of the Druids that were preserved by their
>>>> successors, the Poets and Bards. Understanding these techniques is a
>>>> matter
>>>> of much experimentation and investigation.
>
>>> As Tom has pointed out there is documentary evidence of Druid
>>> sacrifice. These practices are now-longer open to law abiding
>>> citizens. Anyone advocating them, which I acknowledge you haven't,
>>> would be classed as unhinged.
>
>>> Maybe you could give a description of a traditional uniquely Druidic
>>> practice, along with a cite, that could reasonably be practiced today?
>
>> Imbas Forosnai:
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>
>>>>The Druid characterized knowledge
>>>> in the names of three ancient Druids as being:
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>>>> That which is known through tradition.
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>>>> That which is known through experience.
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>>>> That which is known through seeking.
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>>>> To better be a Druid today, IMO we should embrace these three Druids and
>>>> the
>>>> meanings of their names.
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>>> 'Known' seems like too positive a description too me. Experience is a
>>> fading, mudding memory. What's to say that everyone's interpretation
>>> of what happened to them is right anyway? It also seems to imply that
>>> tradition is infallible, which again sets alarm bells ringing. It
>>> might be pretty good a lot of the time, but I'd bet that it is
>>> confused or wrong or outdated or edited at least some of the time. I'm
>>> not even sure what "known by seeking" means. There all possible
>>> sources of information, but I wouldn't embrace them as 'known'.
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>> Knowledge has three forms.
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>> What is known
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>> What is experienced
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>> What is discovered
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>> Experience and Discovery can always correct and update what is known.
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>> How do you know anything otherwise?
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>> Â >> Respect is based on achievement and actions as well as character. I
>> expect
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>>>> any Druids of today to earn their respect and to not think it can be
>>>> claimed
>>>> through a label. It's like Tom said about the differences between
>>>> fancying
>>>> and being. One can be a Druid or claim to be a Druid and many have made
>>>> the
>>>> choice in this matter. The respect that is gained though such choices is
>>>> proportional in the long run to the amount of actual work accomplished
>>>> and
>>>> truth that is revealed in one's actions and disciplines.
>
>>> In ancient society Druids, as the community priests, would have a
>>> definite role in society as a judge or whatever. These days an Arch-
>>> Druid may be called on to act as a judge in his own little grove, or
>>> sub-culture, however he is unlikely to be called onto act as a judge
>>> by wider society. At least as an Arch-Druid.
>
>>> Maybe you could describe how you interpret what you describe as a
>>> Druid's role as a judge today?
>
>> Druids today act as poets, writers, historians, lawyers, doctors, teachers,
>> soldiers, scientists, advisers, story tellers, priests and philosophers.
>> Some of these act at national levels while most act at local levels or in
>> small groups. I personally fill many of these same roles nationally, locally
>> and in small groups as do other Druids. We don't live in a Gaelic society so
>> the class structures are not there to fully support a greater role by Druids
>> (being supported by the society through the kings). The religion controlling
>> much of the society around me if Christianity which sees DraÃocht as a
>> threat to its own welfare thought so leaders in Christianity are more
>> enlightened.
>
>> A Druid would serve as a judge or mediator in the case of disputes in a
>> Pagan society or group. Advice and judgments would be offered based on law
>> and tradition just as it was made in the past. Enforcement of the judgments
>> would be left to one's sense of honor and responsibility within the society.
>> That's how it was done in the past as well. It's called doing the right
>> thing at times while at others in some social structures would say that the
>> actions "just needed doing" or were justified if done by others. Of course
>> in our modern police states, the power to enforce belongs to those with the
>> most people and arms to bring to bear.
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>> Searles O'Dubhain
>
> at least you HAVE a tradition across the pond to help you out.
> Everything is so hodgepodge over here, and the so-called witches n'
> stuff being less accessible than I'd like (although there's plenty of
> curandera's) or "worse". I'm in the position of being naturally having
> a knack for "things" AND of a dual-minded (bipolar state) which means
> one minute I'm a blessing, the next I'm an angry mind (hehe puzzle
> there).
>
> We could use more movements like yours taking the reigns over here,
> maybe there is with the F-Masons and such, but it's always couched in
> Jud-Christiania, and despite what some people say I just don't see how
> it fits in the dominant scheme. Then again the American Jesus Power
> structure is pretty entrenched with money, hypocracy, and general
> mendicantism, as well as the rising Spiritist movements, which I'm
> happy to say is really making a move, despite it's connections with
> certain unsavory African Continental Elements.
>
> Maybe I'm just a bit myopic right now.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, we have the Druid Tradition here - but you have to find it !
America does have, now that you mention it, a rich witch tradition,
and I'm nt talking about 20th century wicca either !
You also have a rich Native American tradition and culture.
The pity is that so much of the rich Afro-American Tradition was lost,
and they are now blind believers in Xianity.
It was more subtly done here with the Irish travellers,
they were so poor that the Church cleverly supported them way back -
and now they are the greatest diehard Catholics of all.
But we can only do what we can:
I think that Druidry is the best equipped outlook for the Space Age.
(Better to be happy or angry than depressed !).
Cheers,
Michael.
PS: I won't be that much on here for a while,
the publishers have today asked me
to send the book when it's ready:
by that they mean a month !
