> On 6 May, 01:26, mika gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> On May 5, 3:40 pm, The Speaking Clock  wrote:

>

>>> On 5 May, 21:19, mika  wrote:

>

>>>> To be clear, I'm not talking about maneuvering through tricky business
>>>> relationships or office politics or difficult interactions with random
>>>> people one might meet and be forced to deal with as you go through
>>>> life.  I'm talking about intentional relationships, people we choose
>>>> to spend time with who choose to spend time with us.

>

>>> Thank you for being clear.  I agree, although I think the most
>>> important relationships are not so much a choice as they are a
>>> recognition.

>

>> huh?  Not a choice but a recognition?  What does that mean?

>
> Are you doing your Dr Pamela routine?  :)))
>

>> Are you currently in an "important relationship" against your will?

>
> No.
>
>
>
>
>

>>>>> The relating part may happen
>>>>> naturally for you, but for me there is always an element of work
>>>>> involved.

>

>>>>> For instance - one part of relating to others involves eye language,

>

>>>> Not for blind people.  So, why would they be an exception to this
>>>> particular form of relating but not you?  See what I mean?  You have
>>>> some kind of assumption of standards of relating based on some
>>>> unspecified "group" of which you want to be a part.

>

>>> I don't understand.

>

>> I'll explain below.

>

>>> Group dynamics shift depending on who is in the
>>> group.  Its a bit like reading the cards in that respect.

>

>>> As for blind people - people adjust thier responses to visible
>>> disability (people learn cultural cues to deal).  Blind people don't
>>> walk around fooling anyone they are sighted.  :)

>

>> No, they don't, but that's not the point.  Blind people don't depend
>> on "eye language" in order to relate to people.  So the fact that you
>> have difficulty with "eye language" is not necessarily an impediment
>> to naturally relating to people.  It isn't for blind people, why must
>> it be for you?

>
> Oh come on now!  If people have crap body language it's harder to
> relate, but by spending a bit of time and effort improving it they can
> find it easier to relate to more people and that has a beneficial
> reinforcing factor as they gain more confidence in thier ability to
> relate.
>

>>>> I am saying, instead of holding yourself to these unspecified,
>>>> probably unconscious standards, stop worrying about that shit and just
>>>> concern yourself with being yourself.

>

>>> I have done, but the balance is important too.

>

>> Balance between what?  As I said, stop worrying about all that other
>> shit and just concern yourself with being yourself.  There is nothing
>> else to balance that with.

>
> I'm not worrying about it, I just work on it.  It's a natural routine
> that's automatic now.  It's nothing to do with who I am, it more a
> matter of ability.  Relating to people is an ability that can be
> improved.
>

>>>>> Aspies are always trying to *pass* in normal society,

>

>>>> Why? Are you worried about being lynched or what?

>

>>> Shit happens sometimes.

>

>> What shit?  You're not going to get lynched for being different from
>> how you or others think people should be, so who cares what shit
>> happens?  What is worth pretending to be someone you're not?

>
> If you're saying that people don't get singled out for abuse if they
> look or act differently from the norm then you've been living on the
> Star Trek Enterprise.
>

>>>> Who the fuck cares about conforming to the needs and expectations of
>>>> "normal folks"?

>

>>> You think we should have a commune?

>

>> I think you should act according to your nature and not give a fuck
>> about what anyone else thinks, wants or expects.

>
> Yeah - well, I'm quite happy with my level of ability to relate to
> people and I keep getting better at it.  That's a part of my nature
> too.
>

>>>> By the way, I am friends with more than one 'aspie', and while it
>>>> sometimes takes quite a bit of effort for them to find jobs
>>>> appropriate for their personalities and tendencies (which is a reality
>>>> for almost all people anyway), their friends and partners accept them
>>>> exactly as they are.

>

>>> Cool.  Well - an aspie wouldn't bother with someone would couldn't
>>> accept them, unless they were lacking confidence.

>

>> Like you are, apparently.  I mean, you're the one who's been talking
>> about wearing masks, changing your behavior in order to maintain your
>> relationships, etc.  These are things insecure people do to try to
>> appease people in the hopes of being accepted.

>
> No - I'm saying that with effort I've managed to overcome a part of my
> disability - improve on the way I relate to people and keep improving
> it automatically.  I now live in a foreign land where the people have
> different mannerisms and I find it useful to observe those because I
> find the Spanish people fascinating, hope to learn more about them and
> thier culture, and the only way I can realistically do that is to
> integrate and learn the language and the mannerism.  To give a small
> example - when making a toast with a spanish person you say 'Salud' in
> a loud voice with a lift at the end, and clink glasses vigorously.
> When greeting them you kiss either cheek.  We don't do that in
> England.  The people who are insecure here don't make the effort to
> speak the language or adopt the mannerism and live on the fringes of
> spanish society in insular ex pat groups.  I don't see the point of
> people living in a foreign land with that attitude.
>
> Aspies could choose to live on the fringes of normal society, saying
> they don't give a shit about what people think about them and being
> proud of all the deficits in thier ability to relate to others, but I
> would regard *anyone* who did not capitalise on the hand they were
> given and improve on it as being self indulgently stupid, neglectful,
> prideful and stubborn.
>

>>> However - there are
>>> levels and there are levels.  There is a good reason why partners of
>>> aspies often feel lonely.  *shrug*  Ask your mates.  Sometimes people
>>> get more than they bargained for, love us or not.

>

>> If someone chooses to be with you then feels lonely, that's their
>> choice, their problem, their responsibility.  If they don't like it,
>> they can leave.

>
> No - if one person in a relationship has a problem affecting thier
> relationship them it's a problem for both people.  If aspies can learn
> to relate better to thier partners then they can enjoy a better
> relationship.  It's not rocket science and given the EPF of aspies
> they have the potential to relate better to thier partners if they
> aren't lazy and are willing to overcome the initial deficits and some
> of the insecurities around these that most have in early adulthood.
>
> I just have no respect for people who expect everything good to come
> to them without any effort.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -