On 6 May, 01:26, mika
gmail.com> wrote:> On May 5, 3:40 pm, The Speaking Clock  wrote:
>
>> On 5 May, 21:19, mika  wrote:
>
>>> To be clear, I'm not talking about maneuvering through tricky business
>>> relationships or office politics or difficult interactions with random
>>> people one might meet and be forced to deal with as you go through
>>> life. Â I'm talking about intentional relationships, people we choose
>>> to spend time with who choose to spend time with us.
>
>> Thank you for being clear. Â I agree, although I think the most
>> important relationships are not so much a choice as they are a
>> recognition.
>
> huh? Â Not a choice but a recognition? Â What does that mean?
Are you doing your Dr Pamela routine? :)))
> Are you currently in an "important relationship" against your will?
No.
>>>> The relating part may happen
>>>> naturally for you, but for me there is always an element of work
>>>> involved.
>
>>>> For instance - one part of relating to others involves eye language,
>
>>> Not for blind people. Â So, why would they be an exception to this
>>> particular form of relating but not you? Â See what I mean? Â You have
>>> some kind of assumption of standards of relating based on some
>>> unspecified "group" of which you want to be a part.
>
>> I don't understand.
>
> I'll explain below.
>
>> Group dynamics shift depending on who is in the
>> group. Â Its a bit like reading the cards in that respect.
>
>> As for blind people - people adjust thier responses to visible
>> disability (people learn cultural cues to deal). Â Blind people don't
>> walk around fooling anyone they are sighted. Â :)
>
> No, they don't, but that's not the point. Â Blind people don't depend
> on "eye language" in order to relate to people. Â So the fact that you
> have difficulty with "eye language" is not necessarily an impediment
> to naturally relating to people. Â It isn't for blind people, why must
> it be for you?
Oh come on now! If people have crap body language it's harder to
relate, but by spending a bit of time and effort improving it they can
find it easier to relate to more people and that has a beneficial
reinforcing factor as they gain more confidence in thier ability to
relate.
>>> I am saying, instead of holding yourself to these unspecified,
>>> probably unconscious standards, stop worrying about that shit and just
>>> concern yourself with being yourself.
>
>> I have done, but the balance is important too.
>
> Balance between what? Â As I said, stop worrying about all that other
> shit and just concern yourself with being yourself. Â There is nothing
> else to balance that with.
I'm not worrying about it, I just work on it. It's a natural routine
that's automatic now. It's nothing to do with who I am, it more a
matter of ability. Relating to people is an ability that can be
improved.
>>>> Aspies are always trying to *pass* in normal society,
>
>>> Why? Are you worried about being lynched or what?
>
>> Shit happens sometimes.
>
> What shit? Â You're not going to get lynched for being different from
> how you or others think people should be, so who cares what shit
> happens? Â What is worth pretending to be someone you're not?
If you're saying that people don't get singled out for abuse if they
look or act differently from the norm then you've been living on the
Star Trek Enterprise.
>>> Who the fuck cares about conforming to the needs and expectations of
>>> "normal folks"?
>
>> You think we should have a commune?
>
> I think you should act according to your nature and not give a fuck
> about what anyone else thinks, wants or expects.
Yeah - well, I'm quite happy with my level of ability to relate to
people and I keep getting better at it. That's a part of my nature
too.
>>> By the way, I am friends with more than one 'aspie', and while it
>>> sometimes takes quite a bit of effort for them to find jobs
>>> appropriate for their personalities and tendencies (which is a reality
>>> for almost all people anyway), their friends and partners accept them
>>> exactly as they are.
>
>> Cool. Â Well - an aspie wouldn't bother with someone would couldn't
>> accept them, unless they were lacking confidence.
>
> Like you are, apparently. Â I mean, you're the one who's been talking
> about wearing masks, changing your behavior in order to maintain your
> relationships, etc. Â These are things insecure people do to try to
> appease people in the hopes of being accepted.
No - I'm saying that with effort I've managed to overcome a part of my
disability - improve on the way I relate to people and keep improving
it automatically. I now live in a foreign land where the people have
different mannerisms and I find it useful to observe those because I
find the Spanish people fascinating, hope to learn more about them and
thier culture, and the only way I can realistically do that is to
integrate and learn the language and the mannerism. To give a small
example - when making a toast with a spanish person you say 'Salud' in
a loud voice with a lift at the end, and clink glasses vigorously.
When greeting them you kiss either cheek. We don't do that in
England. The people who are insecure here don't make the effort to
speak the language or adopt the mannerism and live on the fringes of
spanish society in insular ex pat groups. I don't see the point of
people living in a foreign land with that attitude.
Aspies could choose to live on the fringes of normal society, saying
they don't give a shit about what people think about them and being
proud of all the deficits in thier ability to relate to others, but I
would regard *anyone* who did not capitalise on the hand they were
given and improve on it as being self indulgently stupid, neglectful,
prideful and stubborn.
>> However - there are
>> levels and there are levels. Â There is a good reason why partners of
>> aspies often feel lonely. Â *shrug* Â Ask your mates. Â Sometimes people
>> get more than they bargained for, love us or not.
>
> If someone chooses to be with you then feels lonely, that's their
> choice, their problem, their responsibility. Â If they don't like it,
> they can leave.
No - if one person in a relationship has a problem affecting thier
relationship them it's a problem for both people. If aspies can learn
to relate better to thier partners then they can enjoy a better
relationship. It's not rocket science and given the EPF of aspies
they have the potential to relate better to thier partners if they
aren't lazy and are willing to overcome the initial deficits and some
of the insecurities around these that most have in early adulthood.
I just have no respect for people who expect everything good to come
to them without any effort.
