All this is fascinating, and your explanations and patience are genuinely
appreciated.
However...
"Chade"
newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:1193762403.275866.23980@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...> On 30 Oct, 03:06, "Bexley" wrote:
>> Thank you everyone for answering what must've seemed like stupid
>> questions.
>> All the input and thought is appreciated.
>>
>
> No problem. BTW your original post wasn't see by many people because
> your had included alt.magick.moderated in the crosspost, this stopped
> some people from seeing it properly. In fact, almost all of the groups
> in the crosspost list apart from alt.magick are effectively abandoned.
> So next time you might be better off just posting to alt.magick.
Thanks again!
>
>
>> I've been reading "Summoning Spirits" by Konstantinos which includes
>> instructions on summoning spirits to the Astral and Physical planes,
>> Egregore creation, and some drawings of the spirits Konstantinos has
>> communicated with.
>>
>> I have a few additional questions:
>>
>> 1 - Is he crazy? If the answer is yeas, please ignore the rest of the
>> questions:
>>
>
> Konstantinos, like Savedow, is a medieval dualist. Thats a fancy way
> of saying his model of magick has demons as separate creatures to
> people, with a separate place to live in. Including ideas like
> torturing spirits to make them obey, summoning demons to physical
> appearance and demons affecting the world 'paranormally'.
>
> There is no good evidence to back this up. If the demons are physical
> why drawings and not photos?
Maybe they can't be photographed!? Like Vampires! Did you think about
that? Huh? :-)
In all seriousness this did occur to me, but I'm trying to get a feeling of
the mechanics of the process.
More...
>
> It does *seem* very much that you've evoked a separate creature, it
> feels separate and you can see it with your own eyes. However, the
> same trance that causes the 'appearance' of the spirit is associated
> with something called 'dissociation'. Something that Tom has written
> about in the past, check the archive.
I've been away from usenet for some time: how do I get to the archive? It
will probably save me wasting your time.
>
> As the demons aren't physical, so can't pull your arms off, you don't
> need to cower behind a circle. That doesn't mean that it won't be
> easier with a circle, but as it's not a mechanical defence there isn't
> a wrong way and a right way like in engineering.
I have to bring up Konstantinos again. In "Summoning Spirits" pg 5 he
writes: "Evocation to the physical plane is the more difficult of the two to
master [he referred previously to Astral evocation]. When evoking an entity
in this manner, the magician must facilitate the full materialization of the
being on the physical plane." Note: *materialisation*. And in chapter
eight he goes to great lengths to describe this.
Reading Chapter 8, it seems that he is talking about a physical presence.
If not, why bother?
From his website:
"You will learn how to perform evocations to both the astral and physical
planes, plus opening and banishing rituals. "
BTW, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just looking for some clarity
in my own mind (no cheap-shots, please).
However, this should explain why I asked the questions about the physical
requirements of the triangle/room, etc; and about travelling
Astrally/Physically.
>
> Just because an experience is subjective doesn't mean that it can't be
> powerful, interesting, scary or affect your 'real' life. Consider the
> demon 'paranoia'.
So then, this experience might be liked to a religious experience --
evangelical Christianity for example. The ability of the "holy spirit" to
manifest itself in practicle -- if not physical -- form.
>
> In another post I've already mentioned Caroll Runyon. I'm not
> associated with him, or the OTA, but I would suggest "The Book of
> Solomon's Magick" as a more 'psychological' introduction to evocation
> than Konstantinos.
>
I watched three of Runyon's DVD's and I think I get the picture. Of course
they are shot under less than ideal circumstances, and I get the feeling
some of it is "recreated" (the lighting, for example, makes the dim room and
candles impossible). I have to say I was less than impressed but the
"prophesy" about "a son of Africa" -- very generic stuff. But I think I get
the philosophical angle a little better.
I have also been reading Waite (The Book Of Ceremonial Magic). Once I got
my head around the Oxford House Master language, it became a fascinating
insight into the "academic" examination of the various grimoires and their
histories.
Thank you again for your input -- very helpful.
--Bex.
PS -- what is the simplest most basic and elementary magical process one can
try? Something an idiot who has no prior experience (like me) can do at
home alone?
