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Author: The Speaking ClockThe Speaking Clock Date: Apr 24, 2008 11:13
Although I'm still on my break, I've decided I would ask the help of
a.m. in a bit of research I'm doing. Don't worry though, it's isn't
gardening or chickens:)
I've been looking into identification of Horus with Kairos in the
Greek Hellenistic period as the conception of Kairos seems to
represent the active principle of Thelema and the Greek word stands
out like a sore thumb in a work (botl) primarily fleshed out with the
egyptian pantheon.
I've bought a few good papers for background reading, and have
something of a backbone for writing. What I need right now is some
specifics as to what Crowley was reading in his university years and
after, and also any and all references to Kairos in Crowleys archives.
As I'm still on my break I won't reply to posts, (email, yes) but
appreciate any assistance you can offer.
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Author: The Speaking ClockThe Speaking Clock Date: Apr 25, 2008 12:31
On 24 Apr, 20:13, The Speaking Clock live.co.uk> wrote:> Although I'm still on my break, I've decided I would ask the help of
> a.m. in a bit of research I'm doing. Â Don't worry though, it's isn't
> gardening or chickens:)
>
> I've been looking into identification of Horus with Kairos in the
> Greek Hellenistic period as the conception of Kairos seems to
> represent the active principle of Thelema and the Greek word stands
> out like a sore thumb in a work (botl) primarily fleshed out with the
> egyptian pantheon.
>
> I've bought a few good papers for background reading, and have
> something of a backbone for writing. Â What I need right now is some
> specifics as to what Crowley was reading in his university years and
> after, and also any and all references to Kairos in Crowleys...
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Author: mikamika Date: Apr 25, 2008 12:49
On Apr 25, 12:31 pm, The Speaking Clock live.co.uk>
wrote:> On 24 Apr, 20:13, The Speaking Clock live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>> Although I'm still on my break, I've decided I would ask the help of
>> a.m. in a bit of research I'm doing. Don't worry though, it's isn't
>> gardening or chickens:)
>
>> I've been looking into identification of Horus with Kairos in the
>> Greek Hellenistic period as the conception of Kairos seems to
>> represent the active principle of Thelema and the Greek word stands
>> out like a sore thumb in a work (botl) primarily fleshed out with the
>> egyptian pantheon.
>
>> I've bought a few good papers for background reading, and have
>> something of a backbone for writing. What I need right now is some
>> specifics as to what Crowley was reading in his university years and
>> after, and also any and all references to Kairos in Crowleys archives. ...
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Author: The Speaking ClockThe Speaking Clock Date: Apr 25, 2008 14:44
On 25 Apr, 21:49, mika gmail.com> wrote:> On Apr 25, 12:31 pm, The Speaking Clock live.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On 24 Apr, 20:13, The Speaking Clock live.co.uk> wrote:>
>>> Although I'm still on my break, I've decided I would ask the help of
>>> a.m. in a bit of research I'm doing. Â Don't worry though, it's isn't
>>> gardening or chickens:)
>
>>> I've been looking into identification of Horus with Kairos in the
>>> Greek Hellenistic period as the conception of Kairos seems to
>>> represent the active principle of Thelema and the Greek word stands
>>> out like a sore thumb in a work (botl) primarily fleshed out with the
>>> egyptian pantheon.
> ...
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Author: mikamika Date: Apr 28, 2008 10:04
On Apr 25, 2:44 pm, The Speaking Clock wrote:
>
> I mean to say that Thelema cannot be understood without the cultural
> conception of the greeks
I disagree. Crowley may have used Greek concepts to describe a
particular set of ideas, but those ideas can be understood without
making any reference to the original Greek concepts.
> both in god and universal principal form (the
> sense of time in qualitive form) as Kairos (whom is synonimous in word
> and form historically with Horus).
As far as I know, Kairos is synonymous with Chronos, not Horus. But
even if he were synonymous with Horus, Crowley didn't relate Kairos to
his ideas, he used Horus, thus Kairos may or may not be relevant to
Thelema.
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Author: Rick, M.A.Rick, M.A. Date: Apr 28, 2008 10:28
> ... When you create and use magical correspondences, be
> careful to remember and stay focused on the original concept rather
> than getting caught up in the train of symbolic associations.
This statement caught my attention, because it relates to issues that I've
considered quite a bit in recent years.
This may a be a bit of a sidetrack, but I'm particularly interested in your
take on the following questions, Mika. Of course, the questions are open to
anyone else with interest.
What do you think it means to "create and use" magical correspondences? How
is that goal approached? Is there a way of knowing that the effort has been
successful? And if accomplished, what if any practical outcomes can
reasonably be expected?
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Author: mikamika Date: Apr 28, 2008 11:50
On Apr 28, 10:28 am, "Rick, M.A." wrote:
>
> What do you think it means to "create and use" magical correspondences?
The purpose of magical correspondences is to express abstract and/or
complex ideas using symbols familiar to the magician to enable him or
her to more fully understand those ideas.
> How is that goal approached?
One creates correspondences by studying a complex/abstract idea and
figuring out for oneself what symbolism fits (as a start, one can
study the correspondences developed by others). If the idea becomes
more clear, the correspondence works; if the idea becomes further
obscured, the correspondence doesn't fit.
> Is there a way of knowing that the effort has been successful?
See above. Eventually, the magician attains such clarity that the
correspondences are no longer necessary for understanding a particular
idea.
> And if accomplished, what if any practical outcomes can
> reasonably be expected?
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Author: KisaiKisai Date: Apr 28, 2008 12:37
On Apr 25, 4:44Â pm, The Speaking Clock live.co.uk>
wrote:
> I mean to say that Thelema cannot be understood without the cultural
> conception of the greeks both in god and universal principal form (the
> sense of time in qualitive form) as Kairos (whom is synonimous in word
> and form historically with Horus). Â
That's some grand reaching into your ass.
There is no connection, historically or otherwise, with Kairos and
Horus.
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Author: Rick, M.A.Rick, M.A. Date: Apr 28, 2008 14:20
> On Apr 28, 10:28 am, "Rick, M.A." wrote:
>>
>> What do you think it means to "create and use" magical correspondences?
>
> The purpose of magical correspondences is to express abstract and/or
> complex...
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Author: AbsorbedAbsorbed Date: Apr 28, 2008 15:23
Rick, M.A. wrote:
>> On Apr 28, 10:28 am, "Rick, M.A." wrote:
>>> What do you think it means to "create and use" magical correspondences?
>> The purpose of magical correspondences is to express abstract and/or
>> complex ideas using symbols familiar to the magician to enable him or
>> her to more fully understand those ideas.
>>
>>> How is that goal approached?
>> One creates correspondences by studying a complex/abstract idea and
>> figuring out for oneself what symbolism fits (as a start, one can
>> study the correspondences developed by others). If the idea becomes
>> more clear, the correspondence works; if the idea becomes further
>> obscured, the correspondence doesn't fit.
>>
>>> Is there a way of knowing that the effort has been successful?
>> See above. Eventually, the magician attains such clarity that the ...
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