I know everyone has their own opinions, and that some view Goetic
Workings as evil, but I was wondering what peoples views were on
which was safer or got a better result?

There has been a long debate between myself and a few patrons of a
local occult shop, all of us have differing views, so I wanted to
post it here and see what kind of reaction it got.

(Please, for the sake of this conversation, no one get into the
whole "it's all in your head, they're just unused parts of your
brain". I understand this, but it's beside the point of the topic.)

So which do you think is safer and/or more effective, Evocation,
Invocation, or just not doing it in the first place?

Safer or more errective doesn't come into it,
occult practice in itself is neither good or evil,
it is the intent that is important.
You choose whatever method that fits with the
intent.
Your only problem with getting an outcome is
how well you connect with the working.
It takes time, deication and practice,
so occasion and armchair magic achieves little.
You need a variety of methods, from which
to choose what is appropriate, eg, pathhworking,
ritual, servitor/chaos magic, etc.
It's not fluffy bunny, new age white light,
stuff, it needs, study, experiment,
and practice, practice, practice.

On Jul 28, 2:57 pm, Dark Xero wrote:

I highly recommend group experimentation. It's where the rubber hits
the road, as they say. You all can debate until you turn blue and
still no answers.

On Jul 28, 5:57 pm, Dark Xero yahoo.com> wrote:

The "danger" level of either is approximately on a par with that of
making toast. I wouldn't worry about it. There are two explanations
for all these accounts of people going insane by evoking spirits:

1. Bullshit and melodrama. Almost every occultist has a story about
someone he's known going mad from doing this stuff, but they almost
invariably just make this crap up to make themselves seem all wizardy
and cool and to make it appear as if they're skilled at and
knowledgeable in something; and

2. Anyone who actually thinks prancing around and bellowing "barbarous
names" to evoke "demons" is going to achieve anything other than
making everyone involved look extremely silly really isn't likely to
be right in the head to begin with.

So, if you're not a total dipshit you really don't have anything to
worry about. Better yet, whatever it is you're trying to achieve, it's
almost certain that there'll be a better way of doing it than this.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3

Dark Xero wrote:

"Erwin Hessle" erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:ac014755-c684-457a-98bb-d53db8b13450@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

People have died from making toast. You wouldn't want to try it from your
bathtub, for example.

What makes any practice safer is a good understanding of what you're playing
with. However, the ignorant practice of magick is unlikely to produce
anything like the powerful effect of an ignorant use of a toaster.

The biggest danger anyone is likely to face in evocational magick is that
they'll give themselves a fright when it seems to work.

On Jul 28, 2:57 pm, Dark Xero yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't really make a distinction between evocation and invocation.
Both are varying degrees of the same process. The connection between
the spirit and the practioner can vary "closer" and "further" during
the communication.

If you're unable to actually get the hang of the skills required to
make evocation work, it's as safe as houses.

It can be dangerous, but not to a well trained mind. Unf., the way to
get a well trained mind is from the school of hard knocks, and all of
that banishing and meditiation that one was supposed to be proficient
in before getting involved with spirit communication.

On Jul 29, 11:11 am, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:

Cite your references.

How typical of an American to assume that one would only ever make
toast with an electric toaster. Broaden your horizons, man.

Erwin Hessle, 8=3

"Erwin Hessle" erwinhessle.com> wrote in message
news:5009cf6d-b282-4305-be24-e64a1208bfd4@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

http://www.cdc.gov/NIOSH/FACE/In-house/full9037.html

http://www.construction-site-accident.com/lawyer/electrocution-death.html

Erwin Hessle wrote:

Don't suggest that. They'll invent something worse than the pop-tart.