On Aug 8, 9:55Â am, Absorbed wrote:
> mika wrote:
>>
>> So, what exactly did you mean by "some sort of attainment" in that
>> paragraph, if not "deliver the confident speech you wished"? Â I can
>> certainly possess the ability to speak confidently through the aid of
>> meditation.
>
>> Now it seems you're claiming that by "attainment" you were actually
>> talking about "enlightenment" or some such thing. Â So which is it?
>> What exactly are you talking about?
>
> It doesn't matter what that attainment specifically is.
Yes, it does. You are using the word "attainment" to mean and only
mean "achieve enlightenment". The word attainment, however, has many
other uses.
at·tain·ment –noun
1. an act of attaining.
2. something attained; a personal acquirement; achievement.
Attainment
At*tain"ment\, n.
1. The act of attaining; the act of arriving at or reaching; hence,
the act of obtaining by efforts.
2. That which is attained to, or obtained by exertion; acquirement;
acquisition; (pl.), mental acquirements; knowledge; as, literary and
scientific attainments.
attainment
noun
1. the act of achieving an aim; "the attainment of independence"
2. arrival at a new stage; "his attainment of puberty was delayed by
malnutrition"
3. an ability that has been acquired by training [syn: skill]
> I'm criticising
> the view of attainment as some sort of ideal that can be possessed,
The ability to speak publicly with confidence, for example, is an
ideal that can be attained and possessed. What exactly is the error
in that view?
> since whatever ideal one has in their head is not going to be the same
> as the reality.
Not necessarily. It depends on the particular ideal you are wanting
to attain and how that ideal is defined in your head. For example,
the reality of the lunch I just ate was the same as the ideal lunch I
envisioned in my mind this morning. Hell, let's get even grander -
the reality of my independent life is as ideal, if not even "more
ideal", than the life I envisioned when I left my parents' house to go
to college.
The difference between what you're talking about and what I'm talking
about is the nature of the ideal which is envisioned. If that ideal
is something which cannot be possessed, like "enlightenment", then
your comments make sense. However, there are plenty of ideals which
can indeed be attained and possessed. Some through the use of
meditation as a means to an end.
>> We're talking about different things here. Â You're trying to
>> generalize some statements that were in reference to a very specific
>> example. Â Apparently, you're either confused, or you were using my
>> post as an excuse to say what you wanted to say regardless of its
>> relevance to my actual statements.
>
> You criticised me in the past for talking about meditation as a tool or
> a method,
Can you provide a quote? What was the specific context? I have a
very hard time believing I made a definitive blanket statement with
the intention that it be applied to any and every situation always.
It's more likely that I criticized some specific comments as they
related to a particular context.
> so I simply returned the favour.
Now it sounds even more like sour grapes, that you were waiting for
the opportunity to use my post as an excuse to say what you wanted to
say regardless of its relevance to my actual statements.
> Maybe I shouldn't have referred to it as a
> mistake, because it's not really a mistake.
That would have been more accurate.
