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Author: Monkey MindMonkey Mind Date: Jan 31, 2008 13:45
This is a long chapter. Here's my summary:
After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
following vicious circle:
When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
self-deception. How do I break out of this?
Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
help us here.
But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity.
With these qualities, meditation is "becoming friends with oneself".
Without these qualities, the spiritual path becomes spiritual
materialism: even high meditative attainments are then like a candy
which we gobble up and then want another one of.
Trungpa introduces the bodhisattva path, and the paramitas
("perfections"), among them generosity and compassion.
Love and compassion, the "open path", lies in knowing things as they
are, instead of fighting them.
(I'm skipping the question-and-answer session at the end so this post
won't get too long)
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Author: M.H.BendersM.H.Benders Date: Jan 31, 2008 16:29
On 31 jan, 23:45, monkeym...@hactrn.ch (Monkey Mind) wrote:
> After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
> following vicious circle:
>
> When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
> self-deception. How do I break out of this?
Yeah, Truckpa, how do we break out of these insanely
dull crackpot babble sessions?
> Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
> help us here.
Thanks Truckpa, It's really hard to believe that there exist questions
we have to solve ourselves. I am very glad I paid you money to
tell me that.
> But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
> friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity.
Sound advice indeed. If you don't wanna deceive yourself, just be
really nice to yourself. Get all warm and cuddly. Open up to yourself.
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Author: TomTom Date: Jan 31, 2008 21:48
>
> What is your understanding of such sugar-coated concepts as
> "unconditional/universal loving-kindness"?
They are fictions. The key to true compassion is simply acceptance. It is
impossible to accept the way things are without compassion. Others exist
and so are an accepted part of the way things are. Compassion does not mean
placing others above oneself or condescending to them. It means that others
are seen as the same as yourself. If you love yourself, you will be
compassionate. If you do not love yourself, you must first learn to love
yourself.
Given how tangled up we can get, this may prove a trickier task than it
might first appear to be.
It also doesn't mean that any act by any person must be passively agreed to.
Compassion is not license. We are as strict with others as we are with
ourselves, and as forgiving.
> Which, if any, is their function in spiritual practice and
> development?
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Author: norbu.tragrinorbu.tragri Date: Feb 1, 2008 06:32
On Jan 31, 1:45 pm, monkeym...@hactrn.ch (Monkey Mind) wrote:
> This is a long chapter. Here's my summary:
>
> After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
> following vicious circle:
>
> When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
> self-deception. How do I break out of this?
>
> Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
> help us here.
>
> But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
> friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity.
>
> With these qualities, meditation is "becoming friends with oneself".
>
> Without these qualities, the spiritual path becomes spiritual
> materialism: even high meditative attainments are then like a candy
> which we gobble up and then want another one of. ...
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Author: ChadeChade Date: Feb 1, 2008 10:46
Monkey Mind wrote:
> This is a long chapter. Here's my summary:
>
> After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
> following vicious circle:
>
> When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
> self-deception. How do I break out of this?
>
> Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
> help us here.
>
> But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
> friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity.
I'm not sure generosity is a strategy, more like something that is
supposed to arise naturally from compassion.
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Author: ChadeChade Date: Feb 1, 2008 10:57
On 1 Feb, 14:32, norbu.tra...@ gmail.com wrote: > On Jan 31, 1:45 pm, monkeym...@hactrn.ch (Monkey Mind) wrote:
>
>
>
>> This is a long chapter. Here's my summary:
>
>> After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
>> following vicious circle:
>
>> When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
>> self-deception. How do I break out of this?
>
>> Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
>> help us here.
>
>> But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
>> friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity.
>
>> With these qualities, meditation is "becoming friends with oneself". ...
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Author: norbu.tragrinorbu.tragri Date: Feb 2, 2008 02:33
On Feb 1, 10:57 am, Chade newsguy.com> wrote:> On 1 Feb, 14:32, norbu.tra...@ gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> >> On Jan 31, 1:45 pm, monkeym...@hactrn.ch (Monkey Mind) wrote:
>
>>> This is a long chapter. Here's my summary:
>
>>> After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
>>> following vicious circle:
>
>>> When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
>>> self-deception. How do I break out of this?
>
>>> Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
>>> help us here.
>
>>> But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
>>> friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity. ...
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Author: norbu.tragrinorbu.tragri Date: Feb 2, 2008 03:00
On Feb 1, 10:46 am, Chade newsguy.com> wrote:> Monkey Mind wrote:
>> This is a long chapter. Here's my summary:
>
>> After summarizing some of the earlier talks, Trungpa depicts the
>> following vicious circle:
>
>> When I try not to deceive myself, this is also a form of
>> self-deception. How do I break out of this?
>
>> Trungpa claims that we have to solve this one ourselves. No guru can
>> help us here.
>
>> But he suggests some strategies: compassion (also with oneself),
>> friendlyness (including towards oneself), generosity.
>
> I'm not sure generosity is a strategy, more like something that is
> supposed to arise naturally from compassion.
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Author: MeltdarokMeltdarok Date: Feb 2, 2008 05:07
norbu.tragri@ gmail.com wrote, On 2/2/2008 5:33 AM:
>
> The Buddha learned these meditations from two of his earlier teachers
> and found
> that they did not lead to liberation. They are still practiced in some
> Buddhist
> traditions as a sort of mental exercise to see how one can cling to
> formless
> states, but most traditions have seen that you don't have to beat
> yourself up
> with trance to know it's a dead end.
>
I find it interesting to note that my body physically rejects deep,
timeless, "blissful" trance; and has for many years now. Whenever I
start to slip downward into that state (which I love and miss), my
throat itches and I cough (Damn!), interrupting my meditation.
(Hi George. Heh.)
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Author: norbu.tragrinorbu.tragri Date: Feb 4, 2008 05:26
On Feb 2, 5:07 am, Meltdarok aol.com> wrote:> norbu.tra...@ gmail.com wrote, On 2/2/2008 5:33 AM:
>
>
> >> The Buddha learned these meditations from two of his earlier teachers
>> and found
>> that they did not lead to liberation. They are still practiced in some
>> Buddhist
>> traditions as a sort of mental exercise to see how one can cling to
>> formless
>> states, but most traditions have seen that you don't have to beat
>> yourself up
>> with trance to know it's a dead end.
>
> I find it interesting to note that my body physically rejects deep,
> timeless, "blissful" trance; and has for many years now. Whenever I
> start to slip downward into that state (which I love and miss), my
> throat itches and I cough (Damn!), interrupting my meditation.
> (Hi George. Heh.) ...
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