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Author: ChadeChade Date: May 22, 2008 03:19
Welcome to another read through.
A couple of folks in alt.magick go through a book chapter by chapter
discussing and criticising the ideas within. This time we're examining
"Real Magic" by Issac Bonewits.
In the introduction of Real Magick Bonewits takes the radical step of
introducing his book. He speculates that in part people's interest in
magic comes from the search for knowledge and in part from the feeling
of helplessness. He describes Real Magic as being not a recipe book or
a book of theurgy, which other books on magick often are, but a
intercultural and interdisciplinary examination of magical practices.
He ridicules the secrecy prevalent in magic and the claiming of
authority by supernatural means.
As Bonewits freely admits it's a book of conjecture which he presents
as theories to be tested. His goal, he says, is to examine 'old'
beliefs about magic that are present across cultures, simplify them
and present them in a testable way.
I hope you'll join us as we go real through, kicking about the ideas
within.
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Author: KisaiKisai Date: May 22, 2008 15:26
Kisai here, your other commentator on Isaac Bonewits' _Real Magic :An
Introductory Treatise on the Basic Principles of Yellow Magic_
(henceforth abbreviated as _RM_, Isaac will be *IB*).
A decent mini-biography of Isaac is given here: http://www.neopagan.net/IB_Bio.html
If you've never heard of this work before: _RM_ is actually a very
influential book, mainly amongst the Neopagan community. The book
appears on many reading lists, including _Modern Magick_'s and _The
Magician's Companion_. The magazine "PanGaia" lists it as the "third
most respected classic Pagan book in print".
The reason why _RM_ is influential (far more than the other seven
books *IB* wrote later on in his career) is that it really zinged the
zeitgeist of the late 60's- early 70's. Its written with a scholarly-
ish, wry, meandering perspective that takes the reader on a leisurely
tour about the dusty museum of modern occultism. _RM_ adomishes
superstition and authority and is never afraid to say "I don't know"
or as *IB* coins "Insufficient data".
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Author: KisaiKisai Date: May 22, 2008 15:40
Real Magic 0 - Introduction
*IB* expresses wonder at the world, denounces other books on magic as
being "documentaries" and "recipe collections", waggles his finger at
morality, Christianity, Authority in general, and Edgar Cayce,
*IB* holds up his B.A. in Magic and Thaumaturgy, says he is not an
expert in anything, but that he will be your tour guide to the museum
of magic. On his way, he'll introduce his own theories, rearrange
ideas, and make it seem new.
*IB* asks that you not find enlightenment within the pages (hah), take
everything with a grain of salt, test things for yourself, that magic
takes years of practice and your own gumption, that the time is past
for Things Man Was Not Meant To Know. This book is written for the
public. Please, be kind.
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Author: MeltdarokMeltdarok Date: May 22, 2008 15:47
Kisai wrote, On 5/22/2008 6:26 PM:
> Kisai here, your other commentator on Isaac Bonewits' _Real Magic :An
> Introductory Treatise on the Basic Principles of Yellow Magic_
> (henceforth abbreviated as _RM_, Isaac will be *IB*).
>
> A decent mini-biography of Isaac is given here: http://www.neopagan.net/IB_Bio.html
>
> If you've never heard of this work before: _RM_ is actually a very
> influential book, mainly amongst the Neopagan community. The book
> appears on many reading lists, including _Modern Magick_'s and _The
> Magician's Companion_. The magazine "PanGaia" lists it as the "third
> most respected classic Pagan book in print".
>
> The reason why _RM_ is influential (far more than the other seven
> books *IB* wrote later on in his career) is that it really zinged the
> zeitgeist of the late 60's- early 70's. Its written with a scholarly-
> ish, wry, meandering perspective that takes the reader on a leisurely
> tour about the dusty museum of modern occultism. _RM_ adomishes
> superstition and authority and is never afraid to say "I don't know"
> or as *IB* coins "Insufficient data". ...
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Author: mikamika Date: May 22, 2008 15:50
On May 22, 3:40 pm, Kisai wrote:
> Real Magic 0 - Introduction
>
> *IB* ... denounces other books on magic as
> being "documentaries" and "recipe collections",
Of course. He has to set up his own book as the only worthwhile show
in town.
> *IB* holds up his B.A. in Magic and Thaumaturgy,
From where? Is this an accredited Bachelor's degree?
> Please, be kind.
Why?
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Author: TomTom Date: May 22, 2008 21:52
> On May 22, 3:40 pm, Kisai wrote:
>> Real Magic 0 - Introduction
>>
>> *IB* ... denounces other books on magic as
>> being "documentaries" and "recipe collections",
>
> Of course. He has to set up his own book as the only worthwhile show
> in town.
If you haven't read it, you should. You'll find that, although it's
somewhat dated, it contains a number of interesting ideas.
>> *IB* holds up his B.A. in Magic and Thaumaturgy,
>
> From where? Is this an accredited Bachelor's degree?
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Author: KisaiKisai Date: May 23, 2008 09:29
On May 22, 5:50 pm, mika gmail.com> wrote:> On May 22, 3:40 pm, Kisai wrote:
>
>> Real Magic 0 - Introduction
>
>> *IB* ... denounces other books on magic as
>> being "documentaries" and "recipe collections",
>
> Of course. He has to set up his own book as the only worthwhile show
> in town.
>
>> *IB* holds up his B.A. in Magic and Thaumaturgy,
>
> From where? Is this an accredited Bachelor's degree?
>
>> Please, be kind.
>
> Why?
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Author: KisaiKisai Date: May 23, 2008 09:38
On May 22, 5:47 pm, Meltdarok aol.com> wrote:
> It's funny you should mention user manuals, I stopped by my local
> Borders today when I was struck by the idea to pick up a copy of RM.
> I found that Stephen Covey's books were not only in the self help
> section, there was a copy of Seven Habits in the metaphysical section.
> They didn't have RM though.
Large bookstores tend to stock that which moves off the shelf
quickly. Your local used bookstore might have a copy of _RM_ for
under $5.
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Author: ChadeChade Date: May 23, 2008 10:38
On 23 May, 17:29, Kisai gmail.com> wrote:> On May 22, 5:50 pm, mika gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Please, be kind.
>
>> Why?
>
> We do ask that if you comment, its because you're following the book,
> or have already read it.
I don't really mind Mika, or anyone else who hasn't read it commenting
generally, but in this case Kisai is echoing IB. So it's
understandable to respond with a request for context with the
recommendation to read the book.
However, this time I'll give it. As Kisai alluded to previously, IB
says he tried to make the book accessible to the public. As such it's
written in a breezy rather than a scholarly style and his arguments
have been simplified (a lot like most usenet posts). There are other
reasons too of course, but you'll just have to read the book. :P
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Author: mikamika Date: May 23, 2008 11:23
On May 22, 9:53 pm, "Tom" wrote:
> "mika" wrote
>> On May 22, 3:40 pm, Kisai wrote:
>>> *IB* holds up his B.A. in Magic and Thaumaturgy,
>
>> From where? Is this an accredited Bachelor's degree?
>
> UC Berkeley, 1970. Yes, it is an accredited Bachelors Degree, one of the
> first awarded to a self-designed program. Mostly it was anthropology, but
> with ancient and medieval history, psychology, philosophy, and comparative
> religion topics as well.
So the degree is actually in anthropology, with a bit of history and
other 'soft science' subjects mixed in as well, with a focus on the
subjects of magic and thaumaturgy. His degree was not in "magic and
thaumaturgy" as claimed.
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