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Author: ChadeChade Date: Jan 28, 2008 10:19
The 'cutting through' threads have gone a bit quiet. Florin, rather
than me doing two summaries on the trot can you do 'the open way' at
your convenience please?
Tom seems to be AWOL so I'm doing the 'hard way'.
In this chapter Trapunga covers several points before returning to the
theme of openness.
***my comments***
He explains that the spiritual path is hard because we have to do so
much of it ourselves, we should abandon any expectation of it being
always peaceful or pleasant. Even in the relationship with our guru we
are not passive but active.
Similarly we must actively, not passively follow our path. It's not
enough to commit to a path and then just turn up to class. We can't
pass responsibility onto whoever gives us instructions and have our
shortcomings cured.
***Or cross our meditation sessions off our calender, or follow the
steps in a book. It's not enough to just do stuff, even if someone
else says it's the way, we must actively and regularly consider what
and why***
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Author: TomTom Date: Jan 28, 2008 12:42
> The 'cutting through' threads have gone a bit quiet. Florin, rather
> than me doing two summaries on the trot can you do 'the open way' at
> your convenience please?
>
> Tom seems to be AWOL so I'm doing the 'hard way'.
Sorry, folks. New computer. I had to take a little time to teach it some
tricks. I'll be catching up on vaious threads and I'll do another chapter
when I'm back up to speed.
> He explains that the spiritual path is hard because we have to do so
> much of it ourselves, we should abandon any expectation of it being
> always peaceful or pleasant. Even in the relationship with our guru we
> are not passive but active.
Yup. Waking up isn't something that someone else can do for you. On the
other hand, it happens naturally, so it really isn't very hard at all.
Opening requires no effort. Only courage.
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Author: KeynesKeynes Date: Jan 28, 2008 13:15
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:42:34 -0800, "Tom" comcast.net>
wrote:
>> The 'cutting through' threads have gone a bit quiet. Florin, rather
>> than...
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Author: TomTom Date: Jan 29, 2008 08:53
"Keynes" earthlinkspam.net> wrote in message
news:7egsp3lh496vk0cvos3nhabjkbjor46omb@4ax.com...> On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:42:34 -0800, "Tom"
> comcast.net>
> wrote:>>
>>Yes, Trungpa is suggesting the ego formation is instinctual for apes. I
>>think another way to say this is that it's natural for brains as complex
>>as
>>apes to generate a self-concept and to confuse that self concept with the
>>self. (Map and territory.) The confusion of self-concept with self is
>>the
>>basic structure of the ego. Thus, ego is an "ape instinct". Becoming
>>awake
>>does not destroy the self or the self-concept, but simply cuts through the
>>confusion of one with the other.
>>
>
> Self is a rational construction. It is our explanation
> for experience. One may keep self-ishness handy for ...
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Author: ChadeChade Date: Jan 29, 2008 09:58
On Jan 28, 8:42 pm, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:>> The 'cutting through' threads have gone a bit quiet. Florin, rather
>> than me doing two summaries on the trot can you do 'the open way' at
>> your convenience please?
>
>> Tom seems to be AWOL so I'm doing the 'hard way'.
>
> Sorry, folks. New computer. I had to take a little time to teach it some
> tricks. I'll be catching up on vaious threads and I'll do another chapter
> when I'm back up to speed.
>
>> He explains that the spiritual path is hard because we have to do so
>> much of it ourselves, we should abandon any expectation of it being
>> always peaceful or pleasant. Even in the relationship with our guru we
>> are not passive but active.
> ...
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Author: mikamika Date: Jan 29, 2008 10:13
On Jan 28, 10:19 am, Chade wrote:
>
> ***my comments***
> He explains that the spiritual path is hard because we have to do so
> much of it ourselves, we should abandon any expectation of it being
> always peaceful or pleasant. Even in the relationship with our guru we
> are not passive but active.
Is any of the above actually surprising to anyone? Seems quite
obvious.
> Similarly we must actively, not passively follow our path. It's not
> enough to commit to a path and then just turn up to class. We can't
> pass responsibility onto whoever gives us instructions and have our
> shortcomings cured.
Shortcomings? What shortcomings? You seem to still believe there's
something wrong with you that needs to be fixed, even though you go on
to say:
> Don't be fooled into thinking your not ready or worthy and that you
> have to become something different to be worthy.
Yeah, don't be fooled, Chade!
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Author: Monkey MindMonkey Mind Date: Jan 29, 2008 12:53
Chade newsguy.com> writes:
> The 'cutting through' threads have gone a bit quiet. Florin, rather
> than me doing two summaries on the trot can you do 'the open way' at
> your convenience please?
Sure.
> He explains that the spiritual path is hard because we have to do so
> much of it ourselves, we should abandon any expectation of it being
> always peaceful or pleasant. Even in the relationship with our guru we
> are not passive but active.
>
> Similarly we must actively, not passively follow our path. It's not
> enough to commit to a path and then just turn up to class. We can't
> pass responsibility onto whoever gives us instructions and have our
> shortcomings cured.
>
> ***Or cross our meditation sessions off our calender, or follow the
> steps in a book. It's not enough to just do stuff, even if someone
> else says it's the way, we must actively and regularly consider what
> and why***
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Author: mikamika Date: Jan 29, 2008 13:35
On Jan 29, 12:53 pm, (Monkey Mind) wrote:
>
> Here's an idea that's been nagging at me for a few days: Is Trungpa's
> "spiritual materialism" just a fancy Tibetan way of saying
> "superstition"?
No.
"There are numerous sidetracks which lead to a distorted, ego-centered
version of spirituality; we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are
developing spiritually when
instead we are strengthening our egocentricity through spiritual
techniques. This fundamental distortion may be referred to as
spiritual materialism."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tib/cutting.htm
Have you read this book at all, or are you just jumping into the
conversation anyway?
>> ***Maybe some of our net.buddist friends could tell us if they have a
>> guru? If so how did they know they had found the guru for them?***
>
> No guru here.
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Author: DouglasDouglas Date: Jan 29, 2008 22:05
mika wrote:
> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, Chade wrote:
>
>>***my comments***
>>He explains that the spiritual path is hard because we have to do so
>>much of it ourselves, we should abandon any expectation of it being
>>always peaceful or pleasant. Even in the relationship with our guru we
>>are not passive but active.
>
>
> Is any of the above actually surprising to anyone? Seems quite
> obvious.
>
>
>>Similarly we must actively, not passively follow our path. It's not
>>enough to commit to a path and then just turn up to class. We can't
>>pass responsibility onto whoever gives us instructions and have our
>>shortcomings cured.
>
> ...
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Author: DouglasDouglas Date: Jan 29, 2008 22:09
mika wrote:
> On Jan 29, 12:53 pm, (Monkey Mind) wrote:
>
>>Here's an idea that's been nagging at me for a few days: Is Trungpa's
>>"spiritual materialism" just a fancy Tibetan way of saying
>>"superstition"?
>
>
> No.
>
> "There are numerous sidetracks which lead to a distorted, ego-centered
> version of spirituality; we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are
> developing spiritually when
> instead we are strengthening our egocentricity through spiritual
> techniques. This fundamental distortion may be referred to as
> spiritual materialism."
>
> http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tib/cutting.htm
>
> Have you read this book at all, or are you just jumping into the ...
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