> Summary of the chapter on self-deception:
>
> Spiritual realization/insight is not something to get, to
> obtain, to acquire, to attain to.  It's not something external that we
> ingest or that gets otherwise internalized, and it's not something
> alien to us that is implanted, added or imparted to us by someone
> else.  We acknowledge what we are, instead of dreaming up a perfect
> ideal we wish we were.
>
> With this in mind, how do we deal with a sudden flash of
> realization/insight?  Once we view the experience as something
> valuable, we fear losing it (it's valuable, after all).  Since we fear
> losing (the memory of) it, we try to re-live it in order to remember
> it.  We hope for association with some dreamed-up perfection, and fear
> separation from it.
>
> The opposite of self-deception is facing life as it is.
>
> (There is a section of questions and answers at the end, which I'll ...

>
> My thoughts:
>
> So how does one "face life as it really is"? In Buddhism, there is
> the teaching of the four frames of reference (four foundations of
> mindfulness): focusing on the body, feelings, mind, and mental
> qualities "in and of themselves, putting aside greed and distress with
> reference to the world" - finding out what it's like to sit here right
> now, bodily. Can I be aware of both my feet at the same time? How does
> that feel? And so on.

> Some questions for discussion:
>
> Have you had moments of sudden insight?

>
>
> No mind, All sense. Senses divorced from thoughts, words, concepts,
> abstractions (which is kinda hard to get to the gist of that while
> using all of the above to talk-about it. The Unpronoucable Paradox),
> can and DO give direct apprehension of not only whats behind the veil
> of illusion, but also whats up the skirt of "reality".

> And forms of sensuality that make tantra look like practice.

> Ego isn't bad, it's like surface programs you use to interface with
> existence, getting rid of them is a sheer impossibility, and it's
> egotistical in the first place to think you have the power to erase
> something that is what's being erased. It's not possible unless you
> meet your Anti-Self and it's Anti-Ego, then annihilation is possible.

> On Jan 23, 4:04 pm, Janine Starscream  wrote:
>
>
>

>> No mind, All sense. Senses divorced from thoughts, words, concepts,
>> abstractions (which is kinda hard to get to the gist of that while
>> using all of the above to talk-about it. The Unpronoucable Paradox),
>> can and DO give direct apprehension of not only whats behind the veil
>> of illusion, but also whats up the skirt of "reality".

>
> Perhaps, but that no-mind 'direct apprehension' is meaningless until
> apprehended by the mind.  Thus, it is irrelevant.
>

>> And forms of sensuality that make tantra look like practice.

>
> Do tell.  Or are you just a tease?
>

>> Ego isn't bad, it's like surface programs you use to interface with
>> existence, getting rid of them is a sheer impossibility, and it's ...

> No mind, All sense. Senses divorced from thoughts, words, concepts,
> abstractions (which is kinda hard to get to the gist of that while
> using all of the above to talk-about it. The Unpronoucable Paradox...

> On Jan 23, 3:45 pm, (Monkey Mind) wrote:

>>
>> My thoughts:
>>
>> So how does one "face life as it really is"? In Buddhism, there is
>> the teaching of the four frames of reference (four foundations of
>> mindfulness): focusing on the body, feelings, mind, and mental
>> qualities "in and of themselves, putting aside greed and distress with
>> reference to the world" - finding out what it's like to sit here right
>> now, bodily. Can I be aware of both my feet at the same time? How does
>> that feel? And so on.

>
> Not just focusing on the body, feelings, mind and mental qualities,
> but also, not identifying with them. That's the "in and of
> themselves" part. Many people seem to skip that step and think that
> simply observing is sufficient.

>
> What do you make of the instruction "putting aside greed and distress
> with reference to the world"?

>
> Unless I realize I suck, I won't know how to fix anything. So Trim,
> unless, like me you enjoy a weed filled, bug infested crawling with
> chaotic life garden, ala Walls of Eryx.

> Anti-Self and Anti-Ego live in the coterminous reverse timestream,
> with opposite polarities on the other side of the ''mirror", to be
> distinguished from the Over-"Self" which is the culmination of the
> annihilation of one and one's anti-one.

> Sure you mind will process the whole no-mind part, but that state is
> enlightenment (c'mon, it's where you feel VIVIDLY the quintessence of
> the essence OF existence).