On Apr 3, 8:55 am, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:

You cite only 2 pieces of evidence:

1. Moina's misinterpreted letter to Horniman
2. That Theosophy advocated celibacy.

The second is completely irrelevant. The Golden Dawn is not the
Theosophical Society. On the contrary the GD was quite revolutionary
for the victorian era in that they admitted man and women on an equal
basis. They differed significantly from the Theosophical society on
many points.

Regarding Moina's letter to Horniamn, your thesis relies in a false
intepretation of the word "clean" which likely means nothing more than
"Marital fidelity." In other words, your evidence is really no
evidence at all.

Let's put this discussion back in perspective however.

To begin with, I can see that there are certain trolls here in this
discussion already trying to move the debate in a "sex cult"
direction. Robert Zink has been using fear based marketing on his
website to try and scare people away from the traditional Golden Dawn
on his website with slogans like "Beware: no sex magick in the
traditional Golden Dawn" "Ridiculous allegations of Golden Dawn Sex
Magic" and it looks like EOGD trolls are already trying to steer the
discussion in a direction to support their fear based marketing here
as well Therefore, from the outset., let me clarify that in the spirit
of the classical and traditional Golden Dawn, the Sl.L. MacGregor
Mathers' Alpha et Omega has never and still does not practice nor
engage in sexual activity in rituals, nor are there orgies of any
kind, nor sexual experimentation like was carried out by Aleister
Crowley. Slogans like 'Beware: No Sex Magic in the Traditional Golden
Dawn' being used by Robert Zink and the Esoteric Order of the Golden
Dawn are merely fear based marketing tactics designed to frighten
people away from our order. Groups spreading such rumors have merely
underscored how ignorant they remain of the doctrine of sexual
polarity, a core element of classical Golden Dawn teachings and its
substantial oral tradition. Curiosly, these same groups elsewhere
advertise that they teach alchemy. Considering the true nature of
Hermetic alchemy, it is obvious that such groups not only lack the
initiatic keys of Hermetic alchemy, but that they have not even
understood its true nature.

Robert Zink is on the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn website
attempting to mislead the public into believing that he is the
"guardian of the true Golden Dawn" by exploiting the fact that no
written Golden Dawn documents have surfaced that give explicit
instruction or guidance on particular sexual practices. Actually, that
no such documents have surfaced is not at all surprising considering
the sexual values of Victoria England when the Golden Dawn was
created. Indeed, that the Golden Dawn even admitted both men and women
on an equal basis into the order it was quite revolutionary at the
time, which is why the sexual mysteries of the Higher Grades were kept
so secret that they were communicated only orally.

We also need to get clear on what is meant by 'sex magic'. In no sense
did the Golden Dawn or the Stella Matutina or does the Alpha et Omega
today employ physical sexual activity in ritual, in the sense that is
sometimes ascribed to certain rituals of the OTO nor did they endorse
the sort of ritualistic sexual experientation carried out by Crowley.
There are no orgies in the Alpha et Omega, nor are we an order of
deviants. We are, however, the true bearers of the torch of the
classical, traditional Golden Dawn.

Curiously, however, in BOTA, which developed out of the Alpha et
Omega, Paul Case's successor, Ann Davies, gave considerable prominence
to the concept of sexual polarity, She also delivered a long and
lengthy series of lectures on this very subject, some of which
recommended the sexual practice of 'Karezza'.

Fundamentally, the error made by Robert Zink is to assume that Golden
Dawn teaching on sexuality could only have existed in documents by the
Order. Robert completely ignores the role played by the Oral Tradition
(i.e., human verbal explanation and teaching.). But it is well known
that Esoteric and Arcane Traditions such as the Golden Dawn are
transmitted as much through Oral Transmission as
through written documents. Indeed, there exists a substantial oral
tradition within both the Golden Dawn and the Alpha et Omega of which
Robert Zink remains completely ignorant.

So does Robert Zink, by claiming that sexuality plays no role Golden
Dawn teachings, really prove that he is the "guardian of the true
Golden Dawn?" No. Actually Mr. Zink proves quite the opposite: that he
is completely ignorant regarding true Golden Dawn and its quite
substantial oral tradition! How can Robert Zink properly lead a Golden
Dawn order and properly teach his students about something that he is
so abysmally ignorant about?

That Mr. Zink remains so ignorant of the true oral tradition of the
true Golden Dawn and Alpha et Omega might be somewhat understandable
since he was never initiated himself into any grade of the Golden
Dawn, as has been reported by his ex-wife Sonya. This, however, does
not explain why he completely fails to understand even the
publications of Israel Regardie, upon which he has almost completely
based his "Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn."

Indeed, the concept of sexual polarity lies at the very heart of the
true Golden Dawn system, whether this be conceived as the original
Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, S.L. Macgregor Mather's Alpha et
Omega or even the schismatic Stella Matutina, upon which Mr. Zinks
E.O.G.D. is entirely based. Once this is borne in mind it is possible
to see how this aspect is actually present in much of the Golden Dawn
corpus of literature, including even in the Outer Order rituals. How
can Robert Zink possibly teach any students properly about the Golden
Dawn when he has obviously failed to grasp such a fundamental
principle as the importance of sexual polarity?

The notion of sexual polarity also permeates the Qabalah, as any
serious researcher will attest. How can Robert Zink truly teach
something like Ruach healing, or even properly teach even basic
Qabalah, when he obviously has not even understood the basics?

Robert Zink also purports to teach alchemy in his EOGD. The notion of
sexual polarity is an absolute cornerstone of Hermetic alchemy. How
can Robert Zink possible teach alchemy when he has obviously
understood so little himself?

In a similar vein one can see that the same concept of sexual polarity
permeates much of the work of A.E. Waite and is particularly evident
(making allowance for his rather veiled and ponderous prose) in his
'Holy Kabbalah' and especially in much of the imagery of his rituals
for the higher grades of Waite's, Fraternity of the Rosy Cross. In
short, the concept of sexuality is inextricably involved with the
Mysteries, and particularly as found within the Golden Dawn, Alpha et
Omega, and Stella Matutina systems.

The same matters are dealt with in quite a few of the Cromlech Temple
papers which we now know Mathers and most senior members of the Alpha
et Omega joined. Carnegie Dickson was a very keen member as indeed
were most of the Golden Dawn and Stella Matutina members who had an
Edinburgh connection; namely Dr Felkin and Mrs Felkin (for a period),
Brodie Innes. Isabelle De Steiger etc. Mrs Tranchell Hayes (or Mrs
Curtis Webb) was also deeply involved in Cromlech. I was through the
latter channel, along with her continued membership of the Alpha et
Omega that Dion Fortune developed her ideas on sexuality and the male-
female relationship.

Although it is true that Ithell Colquhoun's important biography of
S.L. MacGregor Mathers has errors and is flawed in a number of
respects, she is quite right to give some prominence to the question
of the importance of sexual energies within the Golden Dawn. In fact
many of Colquhouns speculations or intuitions, based on slender
evidence, have been proven by subsequent research to be very accurate.

Particularly noteworthy is Colquhoun mention of an oral tradition
regarding sexuality within the original HOGD as well as in the Alpha
et Omega. Colquhoun also mentions that, in her opinion, the sexual
aspects should appear in the highest grades of any occult fraternity,
including the projected Third Order of the original Golden Dawn, as is
presently the case in the Third Order of Mathers' Alpha et Omega.
Colquhoun further discusses actual rituals pertaining to sexual
polarity performed by early members of the Golden Dawn. In particular,
she discusses at length the unpublished "Lilith" ritual of A.E. Waite
that she found at the Warburg Institute. Finally, Colquhoun also
discusses issues pertaining to Golden Dawn ritual and tantra groups
regarding sexual polarity and the role of women in both tantra groups
as well as in the original Golden Dawn.

The fact that teachings regarding sexuality have always been primarily
a transmitted in the Alpha et Omega via the Golden Dawn's oral
tradition does not mean that there are no teachings at all regarding
sexuality in the Golden Dawn's written tradition, however, as Robert
Zink also erroneously claims.

Let us first examine Robert Zink's other erroneous claims, however,
before examining the written evidence regarding sexualilty in the
Golden Dawn that is indeed publicly documented.

Robert Zink moreover repeats the popular myth that S.L. and Moina
Mathers lived in a celibate marriage. In reality, neither Robert Zink
nor anyone else has ever presented one single shred of evidence to
support this ridiculous myth. We challenge Robert Zink or anyone else
making such an absurd claim to provide evidence proving such!

Indeed, the letter from Moina Mathers to Annie Horniman usually quoted
in this regard, does not even say the the Mathers were celebate at
all! Rather Moina merely states that their relationship is "clean."
Indeed, this is no evidence at all that the Mathers were celibate, a
ridiculous notion based merely on Robert Zink's fundamentalist
Chiristian interpretation of marital "purity" as chastity. It can
equally refer merely to marital fidelity.

Robert Zink then goes on to quote an alleged letter from Mathers to
Soror Fortier. He quotes this letter completely out of context and
without any reference to the actual letter so that it can be verified.
He does this in order to mask how he is misleading the reader, by
carefully disguising where the acrtual quotation ends and Zink
continues with a diatribe expousing his own sexually repressive,
fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

Let us examine the written evidence of what S.L and Moina Mathers
actually DO say about sexuality and the Golden Dawn in writing:

Sexuality is treated somewhat more explicitly in certain original
Theoricus Adeptus Minor documents written by Mathers, particularly in
the paper known as 'The Opening of the Knowledge of the Masculine and
Feminine Potencies necessary unto the the manifestation of all things,
symbolized in the diagram of the Flaming Sword between MTTRVN and
SNDLPVN'. Again, Robert Zink's complete ignorance of the "true Golden
Dawn" further demonstrates that his EOGD is merely based Regardie's
published documents of the schismatic Stella Matutina, and that Zink
remains completely ignorant of the true Golden Dawn and Alpha et Omega
oral traditions.

It should also be noted that the once Chief Adept in Anglia, Florence
Farr, also alludes to a sexual doctrine in the Golden Dawn Flying Roll
XIII, "Secrecy and Hermetic Love." More importantly, however, in a
letter to Annie Horniman dated 8 January 1896, from S.L. MacGregor
Mathers himself writes:

"I must ask you, whenever matters of sex arise in the Order, and you
are asked for instruction thereon: to refer them to G.H. Frater
N.O.M."

It should be noted that Mathers asks Horniman to obtain direct or oral
teaching on the subject from Westcott, and he does not refer her to
any documents issued by the Order.

Next, Moina Mathers, writing to the relatively prudish Annie Horniman,
attributes teachings on the "Sex question" to a much "higher grade"
than 5=6. In fact, the letter of 1895 states:

"Knowing as yet only something of the composition of the human being
as a Theoricus Adept, you are really not in a position to form an
opinion on these subjects . . . discussed as . . . human sexual
connection. . . . So if one of these . . .come up you would have to
refer the question to a member of a much higher grade than Theoricus
Adept."

In short, Horniman, upset about a sexual instruction, wrote to Mrs.
Mathers, who clearly states that Horniman was unfit to judge matters
of sex because she did not possess the complete instructions of a
"much higher grade."

Then there is the letter that Moina Mathers to Paul Foster Case,
explicitly alluding to teachings relation to sexual polarity in the
Higher Grades, but which she remains concerned to present in fullness
within the context of those Grades:

"Care et V.H. Frater Perseverantia,
As I hear that the Sex Theory subject has been under discussion in
Thoth Hermes Temple, I should like to say a few words to you on the
subject. I regret that anything on the Sex question should have
entered into the Temple at this stage for we only begin to touch on
sex matters directly, in quite the higher Grades. In fact, we only
give a rather complete explanation of this subject in that Grade where
the Adept has proved to be so equilibrated and spiritualized that he
is complete lord of his passional self. Believe me, this is not mere
theory. I am not speaking to you from a merely theoretical point of
view . . ."

Finally, there is case of Dion Fortune. Having joined the Alpha et
Omega in 1919 Dion Fortune, Soror Deo Non Fortuna quickly caught the
eye of Moina Mathers as too independent for her grade level. The
troubles began when Dion Fortune published a work entitled "The
Philosophy of Love and Marriage" (published in 1925), over which Moina
objected to Dion Fortune's open disclosure of Alpha et Omega teachings
on sexual polarity in the higher grades. There were several other
atatements in publications that raised the ire of Moina Mathers, which
ultimately led to Dion Fortune leaving the Alpha et Omega. These
included a statements made by Fortune in series of articles by Fortune
in The Occult Review:

"The management of the sex forces is an exceedingly
important thing in occultism, and the attitude towards
sex in the east and in the west is poles asunder.(What
is Occultism? Weiser)"

"Those who have entered into the deeper aspects of
occultism know that Kundalini, the Serpent Force which
lies curled up at the base of the spine, is really the
sex force which has its centre in the sacral plexus
from which issue the nerves which govern the
reproductive organs. In the normal way, this force is
fully absorbed in its physiological functions, but
there are two ways of rendering it available for other
purposes, for its psychic aspect it is a very
important potency on the Inner Planes; it can be
sublimated above its natural plane of expression, as
done by the ascetic; or it can be degraded. (What is
Ocultism? Weiser)"

And finally:

"Anybody who regards sex as evil, or is in any way
afraid of it or self-conscious about it, had better
leave occultism alone; for it is only through a
perfectly naturalistic attitude towards giving of life
that life force can be handled. Let it never be
forgotten that there is no such things as sex force
per se, but that it is simply the life force on a
particular level, and that through this level the
force must pass every time it rises and descends on
the planes." (The Circuit of Force, Thoth Publishing).

From Moina Mathers conflicts with both Paus Foster Case and Dion
Fortune, we see clear and compelling evidence of the sexual mysteries
in MacGregor Mathers' Alpha et Omega. These were and still remain the
most preiously guarded secrets of the order. The above clearly shows
to what lengths Moina Mathers actually went to protect the sanctity of
these mysteries.

This is vastly different from the monch-like fantasy of the Mathers
held by Robert Zink in order to justify his complete ignorance of the
true Golden Dawn, its higher mysteries, and its substantial oral
tradition. Robert Zink's fantasy of the Mathers non-existent
"celibacy" is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to justify the
completely anti-traditional, un-classical, and completely deviant,
fundamentalist Christian vision of the Golden Dawn that Robert Zink
has enshrined in his so-called "Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn."

In response to the false, hateful, and anti-tradional assertions of
Robert Zink and his "Fundamentalist Order of the Golden Dawn," we
allow Moina Mathers speak out in rebuttal in her own words, quoted
from an interview circa 1900 in and interview about the Mathers "Rites
of Isis:"

"How can we hope that the world will become purer and
less material when one excludes from the Divine, which
is the highest ideal, part of its nature which
represents at one and the same time the faculty of
receiving and giving - that is to say love itself and
its highest form---love the symbol of universal
sympathy? That is where the magical power of women is
found." (Lees, Frederick, Conversations With the
Hierophant Rameses and the High Priestess Anari, from
The Humanitarian: a monthly magazine. February
1900.Vol. XVI: No. 2, New York. Edited by Victoria
Woodhull Martin and Zula Maud Woodhull).