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Author: hodgaomoderatrhodgaomoderatr Date: Apr 3, 2008 02:56
Tom wrote:
> Pretty much everybody who ever did any biographical work on Mathers reports
> that Mathers himself said that his marriange was celibate and Moina Mathers
> is quoted as saying that she considered sexual relations to be "beastly".
Mathers never said this. Please show a direct quotation from Mathers,
not from a mistaken secondary sources. The quote does not exist.
> So there is some evidence that the Mathers' were celibate.
No there is not. Just because you say it is so does not make it so.
Anyone who has asserted the Mathers' celibacy is simply mistaken or
they like you are quoting mistaken secondary sources. Could you please
show one single primary source quote from S.L. MacGregor Mathers to
substantiate this other than the usual misquoted and misinterpreted
letter from Moina to Annie Horniman?
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Author: TomTom Date: Apr 3, 2008 08:55
> Tom wrote:
>
>> Pretty much everybody who ever did any biographical work on Mathers
>> reports
>> that Mathers himself said that his marriage was celibate and Moina
>> Mathers
>> is quoted as saying that she considered sexual relations to be "beastly".
>
> Mathers never said this. Please show a direct quotation from Mathers,
> not from a mistaken secondary sources. The quote does not exist.
See below.
>> So there is some evidence that the Mathers' were celibate.
>
> No there is not. Just because you say it is so does not make it so.
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Author: The Speaking ClockThe Speaking Clock Date: Apr 3, 2008 09:01
On 3 Apr, 16:55, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:>> Tom wrote:
>
>>> Pretty much everybody who ever did any biographical work on Mathers
>>> reports
>>> that Mathers himself said that his marriage was celibate and Moina
>>> Mathers
>>> is quoted as saying that she considered sexual relations to be "beastly".
>
>> Mathers never said this. Please show a direct quotation from Mathers,
>> not from a mistaken secondary sources. The quote does not exist.
>
> See below.
>
>>> So there is some evidence that the Mathers' were celibate.
> ...
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Author: mikamika Date: Apr 3, 2008 10:35
On Apr 3, 8:55 am, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:>> Tom wrote:
>
>>> Pretty much everybody who ever did any biographical work on Mathers
>>> reports
>>> that Mathers himself said that his marriage was celibate and Moina
>>> Mathers
>>> is quoted as saying that she considered sexual relations to be "beastly".
>
>> Mathers never said this. Please show a direct quotation from Mathers,
>> not from a mistaken secondary sources. The quote does not exist.
>
> See below.
>
>>> So there is some evidence that the Mathers' were celibate.
> ...
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Author: The Speaking ClockThe Speaking Clock Date: Apr 3, 2008 11:20
On 3 Apr, 18:35, mika gmail.com> wrote:> On Apr 3, 8:55 am, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> golden-dawn.com> wrote in message>
>
>>> Tom wrote:
>
>>>> Pretty much everybody who ever did any biographical work on Mathers
>>>> reports
>>>> that Mathers himself said that his marriage was celibate and Moina
>>>> Mathers
>>>> is quoted as saying that she considered sexual relations to be "beastly".
>
>>> Mathers never said this. Please show a direct quotation from Mathers, ...
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Author: mikamika Date: Apr 3, 2008 11:46
On Apr 3, 11:20 am, The Speaking Clock wrote:
> That's more like it! :)
>
> Let's talk about sex. In trad. GD groups they don't have any sexual
> activity as part of the ritual initiation,
How do you know?
> but there were several
> break away groups in the 70's that decided to incorporate sex into the
> ritual. These groups still regarded themselves as GD, not Thelma
> etc. I don't know why sex was incorporated,
Really?
> and I would like to know
> further information about the rationals for this.
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Author: hodgaomoderatrhodgaomoderatr Date: Apr 3, 2008 14:35
On Apr 3, 8:55 am, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:>> Tom wrote:
> Just because you don't like the evidence does not make it nonexistent.
> There is indeed evidence, including the letter from Moina Mathers to Annie
> Horniman on the subject. It is not explicit, of...
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Author: hodgaomoderatrhodgaomoderatr Date: Apr 3, 2008 14:53
On Apr 3, 10:35 am, mika gmail.com> wrote:> On Apr 3, 8:55 am, "Tom" comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> golden-dawn.com> wrote in message>
>
>>> Tom wrote:
>
>>>> Pretty much everybody who ever did any biographical work on Mathers
>>>> reports
>>>> that Mathers himself said that his marriage was celibate and Moina
>>>> Mathers
>>>> is quoted as saying that she considered sexual relations to be "beastly".
>
>>> Mathers never said this. Please show a direct quotation from Mathers,
>>> not from a mistaken secondary sources. The quote does not exist.
> ...
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Author: mikamika Date: Apr 3, 2008 15:05
>
> You are quite correct. To be of any substantial value the discussion
> needs to be expanded beyond the personal preferences of S.L. MacGregor
> Mathers and his wife Moina.
As well as expanded beyond your issues with Zink.
> I have therefore posted today on the
> question of Sexual Polarity and the Golden Dawn from this wider
> perspective.
No, you haven't. You posted from the perspective of your issues with
Zink.
> Sorry that the post is so long, but the evidence is quite
> substantial whereas Tom was pretending that none exists!
Evidence of what? You and Tom were discussing potential evidence (or
lack thereof) regarding whether or not the Mathers' were celibate. I
asked about Sexual Polarity and the Golden Dawn. If you wish to have
a meaningful conversation with me, don't confuse the two subjects,
with eachother or with your issues with Zink.
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Author: hodgaomoderatrhodgaomoderatr Date: Apr 3, 2008 16:35
On Apr 3, 3:05 pm, mika gmail.com> wrote:>> You are quite correct. To be of any substantial value the discussion
>> needs to be expanded beyond the personal preferences of S.L. MacGregor
>> Mathers and his wife Moina.
>
> As well as expanded beyond your issues with Zink.
>
>> I have therefore posted today on the
>> question of Sexual Polarity and the Golden Dawn from this wider
>> perspective.
>
> No, you haven't. You posted from the perspective of your issues with
> Zink.
>
>> Sorry that the post is so long, but the evidence is quite
>> substantial whereas Tom was pretending that none exists! ...
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