Tom wrote, On 2/25/2008 11:39 AM:
>
> "Meltdarok"
aol.com> wrote in message
> news:xstwj.25299$v57.3093@trnddc05...>> Tom wrote, On 2/24/2008 6:33 PM:
>>>> On Feb 22, 4:58 pm, "Tom"
comcast.net> wrote:>>>>>
>>>>> Not only that but you persist in trying to objectify gods, as if
>>>>> they were
>>>>> some sort of beings that exist in a specific place. "God" is a
>>>>> metaphysical
>>>>> concept, not a physical phenomenon. Gods are proposed as
>>>>> explanations for
>>>>> physical phenomena but they are not phenomenal themselves. A "dying
>>>>> god"
>>>>> has no effect of lifeforms around it because there are no lifeforms
>>>>> around
>>>>> it. It has no location.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, that's what they would prefer you to think.
>>>
>>> Who are "they"? Or is it sort of a generic "they", meaning whoever
>>> you're paranoid about at the moment?
>>>
>>>> There ARE NO METAPHYSICS, even if it's just a thought-form
>>>> that occupies peoples brains in the form of replicable nerual firing
>>>> patterns it's still a living creature using people as hosts.
>>>
>>> What? A god is a living creature? It's entirely imaginary. If you
>>> think otherwise, present the physical evidence supporting the claim
>>> that it's a living being.
>>
>> What did Trungpa say about expectations?
>
> Better still, what does Trungpa say about the Realm of the Gods?
>
> "Monkey discovers that, although he is intelligent and can manipulate
> his world to achieve some pleasure, still he cannot hold on to pleasure
> nor can he always get what he wants. He is plagued by illness, old age,
> death -- by frustrations and problems of all kinds. Pain is the
> constant companion of his pleasures.
>
> So he begins, quite logically, to deduce the possibility of heaven, the
> complete elimination of pain and achievement of pleasure. His version
> of heaven may be the acquisition of extreme wealth or power or fame --
> whatever he would like his world to be, and he becomes preoccupied with
> achievement and competition. This is the Asura Realm, the Realm of the
> Jealous Gods. The monkey dreams of ideal states that are superior to the
> pleasures and pains of the Human Realm and is always trying to achieve
> these states, always trying to be better than anyone else...
>
> Eventually the monkey may achieve his goal -- become a millionaire,
> leader of a country, famous artist. At first upon achieving his goal,
> he will still feel somewhat insecure; but sooner or later he begins to
> realize that he has made it, that he is there, that he is in heaven.
> Then he begins to relax, to appreciate and dwell upon his achievements,
> shielding out undesireable things. It is an hypnotic-like state,
> natural concentration. This blissful and proud state is the Deva Loka,
> the Realm of the Gods. Figuratively, the bodies of the gods are made out
> of light. They do not have to bother with earth-bound concerns. If
> they want to make love, just glancing and smiling at each other
> satisfies them. If they want to eat, they just direct their minds
> toward beautiful sights which feed them. It is the utopian world which
> human beings expect it to be. Everything happens easily, naturally,
> automatically. Whatever monkey hears is musical, whatever he sees is
> colorful, whatever he feels is pleasant. He has achieved a kind of
> self-hypnosis, a natural state of concentration which blocks out of his
> mind everything he might find irritating or undesireable...
>
> The monkey has managed to reach the ultimate level of achievement; but
> he has not transcended the dualistic logic upon which achievement
> depends. The walls of the monkey's house are still solid, still have
> the quality of 'other' in a subtle sense, The monkey may have achieved
> a temporary harmony and peace and bliss through a seeming union with his
> projections; but the whole thing is subtly fixed, a closed world. He
> has become as solid as the walls, has achieved the state of Egohood. He
> is still preoccupied with securing and enhancing himself, still caught
> up in the fixed ideas and concepts about the world and himself, still
> taking the fantasies of the fifth skandha seriously."
You have avoided dharmakaya entirely, what does Trungpa say about that?
DHARMAKAYA AS BUDDHA IN THE PERFECTED STATE
After showing how the essence of Buddhahood encompasses all
beings existing in the three stages of ordinary living being, bodhisattva,
and Buddha, the Ratnagotravibhiga gives a rather detailed
description of it as freed from all delusions and defilements and
manifesting itself in full brilliance. The essence, thus come fully
into its own and freed of all traces of defilements, is the Buddha's
own mode of being; it is Buddhahood as the dharrnakaya par excellence.
[The Ratnagotravibhiiga is a systematic on the doctrine of the
Tathiigatagarbha which asserts that all living beings are possessed
of an inherent Buddha-nature. In this exposition, the notion of
dharmakaya plays a key role. The universal body (dharmakaya) of the
Tathagata penetrates all living beings.]
--ON DHARMAKAYAS ULTIMATE REALITY
PROLEGOMENON FOR A BUDDHIST-CHRISTIAN DIALOGUE
Ruben L.F. HABIT0
