"Meltdarok"
aol.com> wrote in message
news:xstwj.25299$v57.3093@trnddc05...> Tom wrote, On 2/24/2008 6:33 PM:
>>> On Feb 22, 4:58 pm, "Tom"
comcast.net> wrote:>>>>
>>>> Not only that but you persist in trying to objectify gods, as if they
>>>> were
>>>> some sort of beings that exist in a specific place. "God" is a
>>>> metaphysical
>>>> concept, not a physical phenomenon. Gods are proposed as explanations
>>>> for
>>>> physical phenomena but they are not phenomenal themselves. A "dying
>>>> god"
>>>> has no effect of lifeforms around it because there are no lifeforms
>>>> around
>>>> it. It has no location.
>>>
>>> Oh, that's what they would prefer you to think.
>>
>> Who are "they"? Or is it sort of a generic "they", meaning whoever
>> you're paranoid about at the moment?
>>
>>> There ARE NO METAPHYSICS, even if it's just a thought-form
>>> that occupies peoples brains in the form of replicable nerual firing
>>> patterns it's still a living creature using people as hosts.
>>
>> What? A god is a living creature? It's entirely imaginary. If you
>> think otherwise, present the physical evidence supporting the claim that
>> it's a living being.
>
> What did Trungpa say about expectations?
Better still, what does Trungpa say about the Realm of the Gods?
"Monkey discovers that, although he is intelligent and can manipulate his
world to achieve some pleasure, still he cannot hold on to pleasure nor can
he always get what he wants. He is plagued by illness, old age, death -- by
frustrations and problems of all kinds. Pain is the constant companion of
his pleasures.
So he begins, quite logically, to deduce the possibility of heaven, the
complete elimination of pain and achievement of pleasure. His version of
heaven may be the acquisition of extreme wealth or power or fame -- whatever
he would like his world to be, and he becomes preoccupied with achievement
and competition. This is the Asura Realm, the Realm of the Jealous Gods.
The monkey dreams of ideal states that are superior to the pleasures and
pains of the Human Realm and is always trying to achieve these states,
always trying to be better than anyone else...
Eventually the monkey may achieve his goal -- become a millionaire, leader
of a country, famous artist. At first upon achieving his goal, he will
still feel somewhat insecure; but sooner or later he begins to realize that
he has made it, that he is there, that he is in heaven. Then he begins to
relax, to appreciate and dwell upon his achievements, shielding out
undesireable things. It is an hypnotic-like state, natural concentration.
This blissful and proud state is the Deva Loka, the Realm of the Gods.
Figuratively, the bodies of the gods are made out of light. They do not
have to bother with earth-bound concerns. If they want to make love, just
glancing and smiling at each other satisfies them. If they want to eat,
they just direct their minds toward beautiful sights which feed them. It is
the utopian world which human beings expect it to be. Everything happens
easily, naturally, automatically. Whatever monkey hears is musical,
whatever he sees is colorful, whatever he feels is pleasant. He has
achieved a kind of self-hypnosis, a natural state of concentration which
blocks out of his mind everything he might find irritating or
undesireable...
The monkey has managed to reach the ultimate level of achievement; but he
has not transcended the dualistic logic upon which achievement depends. The
walls of the monkey's house are still solid, still have the quality of
'other' in a subtle sense, The monkey may have achieved a temporary harmony
and peace and bliss through a seeming union with his projections; but the
whole thing is subtly fixed, a closed world. He has become as solid as the
walls, has achieved the state of Egohood. He is still preoccupied with
securing and enhancing himself, still caught up in the fixed ideas and
concepts about the world and himself, still taking the fantasies of the
fifth skandha seriously."
