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colton Posted: Jul 22 2007, 08:06 PM
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does anyone have ideas for plans on either one of these?I want to get
both but that would be nearly a thousand bucks!
MagicTammi Posted: Jul 24 2007, 12:12 PM
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Mark Wilson's magic course has a good diagram of a super-x
suspension. You could build it from that. Mark Wilson is like $10 so
it's well worth getting and has many other illusion ideas as well.
But, don't think you can build a super-x in your living room. The
support frame has to be cut out of 1/4" steel plate so even if you get
a local metal worker to fabricate one to your dimensions, your still
going to be paying at least $200 -$300. If you can cut for yourself
1/4" plate in your workshop then you'd still be talking $100-$200 for
materials maybe. It has to safely support the weight of a person so it
has to be well made.
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TricksDaniel Posted: Jul 24 2007, 01:41 PM
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Yes Mark Wilson's book is a good point but it is more around $20 here
in the states. There is also get Build Your Own Illusions by Jim
Sommers which has the flying carpet illusion explained as well as an
added bonus that shows if you add a lazy susan to the top board the
person can be rotated 360 degrees while being suspended. You can also
find a plan for the flying carpet illusion through Osborne Illusion
Systems. If you go to your local library you should be able to find a
book on older illusions with some very old names in magic like Houdin,
Houdini, Blackstone, but you will be looking for Harry Kellar. It will
show you how the S-suspension is built. There are some many older
greater illusions in it as well. Sorry but I don't remember the name
of it but almost all US libraries should have it. Just do a search for
Harry Kellar.
There is some from Ebay if you wish to purchase a flying carpet
illusion. Just put in Flying Carpet Illusion in the search box and
there is usually a couple of auctions on them. There is 3 sellers that
carry them in their stores and they are priced from $325 to $459.95. I
would suggest that if you want to feel safe when performing this I
would surely buy it. They are rather well made and in todays market
they are cheap compared to building one yourself if you don't have the
tools to do so.
Have you ever thought instead of the x-suspension, that you can
accomplish the same effect with a chair suspension and you can perform
it surrounded and with a person from your audience (you can perform
the s- or x-suspension with an audience member but they have to lay on
they side as not to give it away to them how it's done). What do you
want these Illusions for, as far as where your performing?
For the Flying Carpet it is best used at birthday parties, weddings,
close-up, but I wouldn't use it for the street or stage if it is
elevated.
The S or X-suspension is more of a stage or controlled setting meaning
no one directly to the sides or behind you. It is limited but it is
very eye appealing too.
Now, the Chair Suspension I suggested is not limited. It can be done
on stage, close-up, in the street, in a living room, dining room,
parties, weddings, just about any where you carry the board and
chairs. It is versatile and eye appealing just as the other
suspensions but it can be done anywhere and surrounded as well as
using a borrowed assistant, maybe the bride or birthday person.
It is a tool just like the carpet is, to make money from it. If your
looking to perform for money get something that you will use. If it is
more stage I would suggest the s- or x-suspension. More parties or
weddings I would get the carpet. If it has to be something you can use
no matter where you perform I would go with the chair suspension. You
can also find the chair suspension in the same book that has the s-
suspension in it. You can also purchase them off Ebay as well just
type Chair Suspension.
Hope this helps you in some way, and let us know what you will be
using it for? Fun, to entertain and get paid, to put in a show, etc?
QED Posted: Oct 24 2007, 09:55 AM
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tricksdaniel... you are the pro and I am not... so anybody reading
this needs to take that into consideration... but I feel the need to
say this:
I always wince when I see someone bring out the chair suspension...
I don't think it fools OR entertains ANYBODY, except for the magician
that performs it...
I think the public is NOT STUPID...
to me, this so-called "levitation" is obvious and insulting to the
spectators' intelligence...
I don't know how anybody can look at that and NOT see exactly how it
is done.... it's not even an interesting visual...
I first saw this done when I was about 9, and I remember thinking to
myself "Either that magician is stupid for believing that anybody is
falling for that lame trick, or all of these audience members are
stupid, blind or just being polite, cuz that's the dumbest thing I've
ever seen..." I think they were being polite...
I've seen it several times since and I always have the same
reaction...
I don't think anybody is being fooled by this...
The flying carpet is only slightly less obvious to me...
In my mind, if you want to do a lev like that (using an audience
member), then the ladder suspension, where you swing the little
ladders out from under the "levitatee" (is that a real word?) is the
most convincing one of that genre of levs....
but then, very few levitations are convincing to me...
I still like the Asrah if it is done smoothly and slowly....
and Copperfield's fountain lev is entertaining...
Would anyone like to give a description of those levitations that
Colton asked about at the top of the topic?
That way, everyone will at least know exactly what we are talking
about when we toss around those terms (x suspension, super x
suspension, etc.).
--------------------
do or do not, there is no try....
"A conjurer is nothing if he only amuses and fails to inspire wonder."
- Thomas Frost
KevinE2X Posted: Oct 24 2007, 10:46 AM
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X or Super X is mainly useful for a photo shoot and thats about it.
Gamolo can be done convincingly on stage with some thought...the best
I have seen, was when it was done as part of a comedy routine.
The best 'suspension' is indeed the ladder levitation by Blaney. At
just over $10K, not too many here will ever own one, but it is the
best. The second best would be the similar 3000 suspension. Very
similar to the ladder levi, but uses blocks instead of ladders.
We used to perform an Asrah, it can be a pain to tour with, but not
impossible. We took it out of our show, not because of logistics, but
simply because it didn't fit our style of show and I couldn't come up
with a better routine for it.
Hope that helps.
Kevin
QED Posted: Oct 24 2007, 04:52 PM
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thanks Kevin...
I believe that DC's fountain suspension used the gamolo, correct?
Or does the gamolo generally start up at waist level with a small box
type platform?
I get really confused with all of these different types of levs and
which is which....
--------------------
do or do not, there is no try....
"A conjurer is nothing if he only amuses and fails to inspire wonder."
- Thomas Frost
meee223 Posted: Oct 26 2007, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (QED @ Oct 24 2007, 09:55 AM)
tricksdaniel... you are the pro and I am not... so anybody reading
this needs to take that into consideration... but I feel the need to
say this:
I always wince when I see someone bring out the chair suspension...
I don't think it fools OR entertains ANYBODY, except for the magician
that performs it...
I think the public is NOT STUPID...
to me, this so-called "levitation" is obvious and insulting to the
spectators' intelligence...
I don't know how anybody can look at that and NOT see exactly how it
is done.... it's not even an interesting visual...
I first saw this done when I was about 9, and I remember thinking to
myself "Either that magician is stupid for believing that anybody is
falling for that lame trick, or all of these audience members are
stupid, blind or just being polite, cuz that's the dumbest thing I've
ever seen..." I think they were being polite...
I've seen it several times since and I always have the same
reaction...
I don't think anybody is being fooled by this...
The flying carpet is only slightly less obvious to me...
In my mind, if you want to do a lev like that (using an audience
member), then the ladder suspension, where you swing the little
ladders out from under the "levitatee" (is that a real word?) is the
most convincing one of that genre of levs....
but then, very few levitations are convincing to me...
I still like the Asrah if it is done smoothly and slowly....
and Copperfield's fountain lev is entertaining...
Would anyone like to give a description of those levitations that
Colton asked about at the top of the topic?
That way, everyone will at least know exactly what we are talking
about when we toss around those terms (x suspension, super x
suspension, etc.).
Well, I think a LOT of people couldn't even begin to figure out the
chair suspension, including me and I don't consider myself stupid. I
just checked out the web and just a few moments ago found an
explanation for this effect. But just because it was simple for you to
figure out doesn't mean a lot of people are able to do the same
thing.
QED Posted: Oct 29 2007, 02:05 PM
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meee, I think the difference COULD be that seeing it in person (and
in 3D) instead of a little clip on a tiny window on your computer
monitor, you really can figure out how it's done...
Don't take my statements as an insult because you couldn't figure it
out from watching it on youtube (or whatever)...
The chair suspension is like a LOT of tricks... if you watch it on
youtube, it's a flat 2D view with perfect angles, and you can't figure
out what you're seeing. But when you see it in person, it looks
obvious and, dare-I-say, ridiculous...
So I disagree. Either way, I know at least two magicians who said they
bought this illusion early in their performing careers because it's an
"easy to transport" illusion that is not too expensive, but it now
sits in their garage and basement, because it's a lame illusion that
doesn't really fool anybody... which just confirmed what I thought
when I was a kid... Just for the record, I didn't initiate that
conversation or try to slant it in any direction... they said that
stuff of their own accord... I asked if they got good reactions from
it and they both said they don't use it anymore, and did I want to buy
it?... then I asked them WHY they didn't do it anymore...
It's kind of like the sword suspension or the broom suspension... not
very convincing...
The question that pops into your mind during the illusion is "If he
can really float that woman, then why does he need a broom (or a sword
or a chair) to hold up part of her body?"...
The thing that happens in a magician's mind is this - If they know 85%%
of how a trick is done, but not the last 15%%, then they are completely
baffled. If a layman figures out 15%% of a trick, he KNOWS how it's
done!... If he saw you palm a card (or even suspected it), it doesn't
matter how you forced it on him, or controlled it to the top of the
deck, or how the color change worked, or how you got it into the
little matchbox, or whatever - he KNOWS how it's done...
A magician often hopes so strongly that a person is fooled by his
tricks that he blinds himself to how obvious his "deceptions" are.
By contrast, the same magician that I first saw do the chair
suspension, also did the zigzag lady and blew me away... and it
continued to impress me everytime I ever saw it performed
afterwards... NOW (these days) the zigzag is obvious to me, because I
know how it's done... but I never had the same feeling about the chair
suspension or a lot of other levitations for that matter.... most of
them are just not that convincing
--------------------
do or do not, there is no try....
"A conjurer is nothing if he only amuses and fails to inspire wonder."
- Thomas Frost
MagicMan Posted: Oct 29 2007, 02:34 PM
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I won't comment on Q's critique of these suspensions/Levitations as
he may have seen some bad performances. I however have not only seen
the trick but performed it, and I have to say that it kills.
First of all context is everything. Imagine for a moment in a routine
where one was presenting him or herself as a hypnotist and one were to
instead of the classic balancing act between two chairs one were to
use the chair suspension instead?
The secret to performing these suspensions is to make a big deal of
the supports at the beginning of the act. Bang on the board. wave the
swords around. WHATEVER. Just sell the support and you will sell the
trick.
You can pick up used flying carpets for as little as $100 bucks in
need some work condition on eBay and a used need some work chair
suspension can be had for about $200. I would go with the Chair
suspension as it looks more natural and can also be used in many
different acts.
Having said all that, remember that one mans dream is another mans
nightmare, so check em all out and see what works for you.
--------------------
Those who know the least use the most words to say It. I guess if you
talk long enough your bond to say something intelligent. EVENTUALY.
LOL
QED Posted: Oct 29 2007, 02:55 PM
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MM, honestly, I do appreciate your comments, and far be it from me to
try and tell someone which illusions to perform... I have to take you
at your word about this.
I'm just commenting on this from my observations as a layman... a kid
at that... and on the feedback I've gotten from other magicians.
Now that I think about it, I remember my nephews, who were about 7 and
9 years old at the time, at an Independence Day festival a few years
back who were watching a magician perform this saying "Man, that looks
sooooo fake....!" But then again, they're fairly jaded kids...
Maybe it's just me, but I honestly have a visceral, negative reaction
to this suspension... which I don't have to the ladder suspension...
--------------------
do or do not, there is no try....
"A conjurer is nothing if he only amuses and fails to inspire wonder."
- Thomas Frost
TricksDaniel Posted: Oct 31 2007, 05:36 PM
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First of all Q don't tell everyone I'm a pro I'm supposed to be in
disguise here. Just kidding and thanks for the kind words. I have to
say to both MM and Q I agree with you both. I know it sounds odd so
let me explain. To me the chair suspension didn't look real to me when
I first saw it but the broom suspension blew me away. It is all on how
we are brought up. Some people are born and are taught how to be
problem solvers fast, especially children that grow up traveling. Some
like to dream. To me this is all on what will sell the trick. Think of
this. A child brought up that is taught to have a very keen sense of
everything would be able to spot both suspensions and levitations and
know the difference. I'm not saying anyone is dumb like Jessica
Simpson thinking buffalo wings came from buffaloes. If that is how you
think I can't help. What I am saying is that eventually we all catch
up to the same way of problem solving it's just that some take longer.
With that said here is my solution. All levs and suspensions look like
something is fishy to me. Know why? Because it really can't be done
without some kind of aid. But that is my thinking now since I have the
knowledge.
The best thing for anyone to do is look into yourself for the solution
on what to get. Keep in mind your budget though. What do you think
looks best or what do you think will look the most convincing to the
audience? That is what will lead you to what will work best for you.
On a different note. I don't think there is anyone including a child
that can't figure out that a lev or suspension is done with some kind
of aid. I do however believe that it is all on YOUR PRESENTATION. This
is what will sell any effect, the dream that it could be real.
On my final note. Always remember that there are new audience members
born each day and just because the parents know how it's done doesn't
mean their child does. If this wasn't true then why are we as
magicians doing magic? And without this no one would have ever gotten
in to magic. It's the curiousness that gets us.
billpage Posted: Nov 3 2007, 12:58 AM
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well said everyone:)
happy hallow ween and ipray everone safe everytime
and find JESUS IN THERE HEARTS:)
PS ihad super x levi
weight holds i think it said165
ilike how i had mine rigged with cut in one of fancy souport boards
that way iamable to walk away
from the personbeing levatated inmid air on a board
yep mark wilson book has neat ideas on super xlevi board too
ps has othercoolstage illusions too
farmer and the witch illusion
no stooges at all
the perfect stage illusion
itlike how dc does 13 people vanish illusion
people get tobe part of the illusion
ps in farmer and witch stage illusion children get tobe part of this
neat cool illusion
ps penn and teeler do chiar supension:)
and herbert l becker on maurry tv talk show
plus other cool stage illusions reaveled
herbet becker let me know thahewas gonnabe on thattvshow
and thr email heletme know about knew illusion secrets reaveldbooks he
done our out inbook stores:)
and paull curry magicians magic
paper backbook
has neat pole levi double whammy idea that leaves everyone in the know
howed he do that?
eeryoethiningok when eremoves chiar kid isin mid air at 45
degereeangel then horizantal huh? wow he took poe thekid is suported
on wow the kid levitating in mid air neat o cool
ps sceret the magician really takes away hollow shellpole
and real solid pole is painted black and curtain is black
add blacklighting perfect illusion of invisibililty
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.magic.secrets/topics
type in
super x levi board
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