>>> There are NO tests. How can the finite test the Infinite-Personal
>>> other
>>> than to test His patience for lack of belief?
>
>> So it is your position that no objective proof exists of any god? If so,
>> I find your view refreshing.
>
> If by objective, you mean to say empirical, then the answer is
> fairly straight forward when by empirical we strictly hold to
> observation. I don't know anyone since Christ's day who claimed
> to personally witness a theophany. Yet there again, "observation"
> is closely related to "experience" wherein there is evidence for
> "unnatural" occurrences to defy scientific and logical inquiry
> let alone answer. I've personally known a man who was given
> 4 weeks to live because of wide spread cancer. No treatment
> was even offered because of the extent and severity of the
> case. But it became widespread knowledge among the churches
> of the community with even a couple of all night prayer vigils
> being held. He was later declared by several doctors to be
> completely cleared of all cancer. That was maybe 15 yrs ago
> and I don't recall any further details. But such a story is not
> unheard of. It is "un-natural." The question remains as to
> whether or not it was "Super-natural." Occam's razor is
> often reduced to the common "All other things being equal,
> the simplest solution is the best." Because the concept of
> a Supreme Being is universal down through history, the
> most often conclusion would be that such things are a
> demonstration of Divine intervention.
Now, you have to clarify the following point.
Assuming that we take it that this person of cancer was cured by your
deity, what about the millions of living creatures that was killed in
your great world flood?
You sound so proud of one cure and turn blind to millions killed?
>
> But experience gets rather subjective, does it not? Yet
> that being said, how else would explain my own experience
> back in 1977 during spring break, driving from Chicago to
> Dallas. I and a colleague were in my little Fiat 124 Spyder
> traveling south of Little Rock on a two lane highway that
> was suppose to lead us back to the major highway we had
> been traveling on. It was deserted. Suddenly my car
> just stopped running. The radio didn't work. Nothing
> electrically worked. Something of a car buff, it completely
> baffled me because even a way ward battery connection
> would not have sufficient cause. We slowly came to
> a stop on the side of the road, each looking at one another
> thinking, "Now what?" Our thoughts were soon answered
> as all kinds of debris came flying at my beautiful little
> Italian stallion. We prayed and it all stopped and the car
> started back up without even a twist of the key. My
> friend and I were attending Moody Bible Institute at the
> time and were both interested in canvassing Dallas
> Theo Sem. His background was European where he
> and his family had a history of being active in the
> occult. He had some amazing stories and after leaving
> MBI, became involved in helping others who were
> coming out of similar circumstances.
>
> So how does one explain such occurrences?
Worse, my house was in complete darkness one night. We did not do
anything and went to sleep, but an hour later, everything came
back...no miracle.
But since you had encountered a so-called incident, what was the
significance? There was no disaster and you interpret every thing to a
divine intervention, on your behalf? On such insignificant event?
>
>>> ..... all men have
>>> known that there is an Absolute, Infinite God which hold them
>>> accountable for their deeds.
>
>> NO. "All men" do not know this. Indeed, Iwould argue that no man "knows"
>> this. Many seem to believe it, but that is not knowledge.
>
> There IS something inside each one of us that has relation to
> true moral guilt. I didn't mean to imply that everyone has a
> definitive understanding of what they "know." But if history is
> of any witness, man has been "religious" from the beginning
> of recorded time. In my studies of the ancient mystery
> religions from Rome, back to Greece, back to the many
> Egyptian dynasties, back to Assyrian beliefs, finally to
> Babylonian origins, even in my studies of occult activities
> in old Europe and in SEA as well as in Indonesia and
> So. America, every culture had a system that honored
> or feared some deity. That is far and away the "norm."
> Atheism, defined in modern terms, is truly a very
> minute system.
Yes, atheism is quite modern.
But it is the product of modern knowledge and technical manifestation.
It will grow and it will glow, in place of religion.
This is the progress of mankind and it will not be stopped by the
traditions attached to those ancient myths.
>
>> All men know this but not all
>
>>> men admit to it or have made themselves callous to that
>>> reality over time.
>
>> How can you know the innermost thoughts of "all men"? Surely you
>> must admit that you were hyperbolic here.
>
> Obviously. First off, no man can know "everything about
> everything." There's that incomprehensibility factor again. And
> as scripture itself states, only the spirit of a man knows the
> innermost thoughts of a man. However, the reality is, "As
> a man thinketh, so he is." i.e. Actions speak louder than
> words. And as I have just noted, the historical evidence
> bears the fact that men have always held to some view of
> God. It is part of our make-up.
First of all, make-up are man-made and it can be washed or get rid of.
Of course, no man can know everything about everything.....but this is
what we called professionalism. We have a society of thousand of
professions and we all know most things in this world.
This does not include anything about a deity or god, since it is
invented by human mind.
The innermost of a person is not the spirit, but a consciousness of
oneself. This is brought about by the action of all the biological
cells of our brain. It dies when a person depart and there is no
spirit to talk about, otherwise, it will already full of it in this
world and if they become fierce due to unjust "killing" by the
crusaders, then you loons will not be in such a "peaceful"
environment, right?
>
> All I have time for tonight -I teach on Wed nights....
Yes, go and teach some thing useful...but don't con all the children
into believing non-existing supernatural being. Or at least let them
decide when they are mature, not subject them to indoctrination.
