> Sorry... got some freelance editing work and got distracted from the
> important conversations... ^^

> E. Liddell wrote:

>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:45:02 -0700, spam wrote:
>>

>>>
>>> E. Liddell wrote:

>>>> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:43:04 -0700, spam wrote:
>>>>

>>>>>
>>>>> E. Liddell wrote:

>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:24:10 -0700, spam wrote:
>>>>>>

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>>>>>>> Yeah. You have to imagine these monsters aren't very smart. Or that
>>>>>>>>> they keep filling their chests up with treasure after people keep
>>>>>>>>> coming along and killing them for it.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You'd think entire species would have been wiped out by now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also makes you wonder how some of the smaller settlements survive, and
>>>>>>>> whether attacks on merchant caravans result in abnormally high prices for
>>>>>>>> imported goods . . . Maybe that's why armour is so expensive.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I always thought metallic minerals must be very rare.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's possible, and would explain all the reforging-of-old-weapons. Of
>>>>>> course, it's quite possible that it's both, and all the weapons and armour
>>>>>> are getting shipped out from . . . isn't there someplace in Dunan that
>>>>>> specializes in ironmongery? . . . and half the shipments aren't making it
>>>>>> to destination.

>>>>>
>>>>> It's possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember in IV there was talk of "bad iron"... which is why it takes
>>>>> quite a bit of work to get good iron on the market. Obviously this was
>>>>> 150 years in the past, but it seems like perhaps there's only a few
>>>>> good iron sources in the world, and the trade for it isn't well
>>>>> managed. And it's possible places like Harmonia hoard it.

>>>>
>>>> Random thought: I wonder if the Sindar, or some other early civilization,
>>>> mined some areas out and then stashed the results in some place that's
>>>> become inaccessible?

>>>
>>> That would at least explain the chests full of rare items in the Sindar
>>> ruins.

>>
>> I thought those were created by the Rune of Video Game Cliches. (I mean,
>> come on, why is it that all these lost civilizations left unlocked chests
>> with Stuff in them dotted around inside their ruins?

>
> Not to mention of course being able to just walk into someone's house
> and take their stuff and not have them have a problem with it. (I was
> actually surprised in FF VII when I robbed the child and there was
> actually a consequence... not that I was really aware that I was
> robbing the child at the time... just seemed like another place to
> loot...)

>> At least the
>> corpse-robbing thing in III was marginally more realistic, although it
>> failed to explain why someone out in the back of beyond would be carrying,
>> say, a dog kennel around, or why additional items would appear if you left
>> a corpse alone for long enough . . .)

>
> Well, it's that's where people kept dying... maybe it's where the dog
> kennel carriers of the world go to die.

> It got irritating that some characters would rob corpses and others
> wouldn't though. It got hard keeping track of how often I checked the
> bodies.

> This discussion sounds very disturbing.

>
>

>>>> ( I'm sitting here debating the economics of a world in a video
>>>> game with someone I've never met face-to-face--should I get my geek hat
>>>> out?)

>>>
>>> Sweetie, I've been dancing around in my entire Geek Uniform since this
>>> conversation started. ^^

>>
>> I'll have to unearth mine, then--I think it's still boxed up from the
>> move. ;P

>
> Did you find it? :)

>>
>>

>>>>> Yes--well, and III required special attention because you could so
>>>>> easily interrupt casting (I would stick Geddoe in the back way far away
>>>>> from the action and he'd STILL get hit casting a spell... this isn't a
>>>>> problem late in the game but it was a big pain for me at the
>>>>> beginning). I have to say I preferred the games where they didn't have
>>>>> the casting interruption thing.... or at least in V where it was
>>>>> possible but far less of an issue.

>>>>
>>>> Among the first things I did with Geddoe was max out his Lightning Magic
>>>> skill--after that, interruptions ceased to be much of a problem.

>>>
>>> Well, of course, but at the very beginning I had trouble. Esp since
>>> IIRC there seems to be a period early on where when you have access to
>>> a trainer you have few skill points, and when you finally gain a lot of
>>> skill points, you're nowhere near (or would have to do a lot of
>>> backtracking) a trainer.

>>
>> I remember running back to Brass Castle a lot. It may also help that I
>> don't use magic all that much unless I'm desperate (or am going from A to
>> B, where B does not contain a boss monster, and get jumped by a big pack
>> of something that's just a little too tough for me either to kill off by
>> hand in one round or guarantee being able to run away from).

>
> I use magic a lot because I'm lazy. I am really into mass damage
> spells; the more possible it is for me to elimate the entire group of
> attacking mosnters in one round, the more I use magic. It has nothing
> to do with power level and more that I have it in my head that magic
> will make the fight go faster. Now, if fights were less common and more
> challenging, I probably would do this less.

>>>
>>>

>>>>>> Random wild theory--could Pesmerga be Hikusaak in disguise?

>>>>>
>>>>> My gut says no. I doubt Hikusaak would _help_ someone else get their
>>>>> hands on a True Rune without trying to make a play for it... (unless he
>>>>> made a grab for the Sovereign and Front Gate Runes at the end of I...
>>>>> but I just can't see him letting Souleater walk away from him).

>>>>
>>>> Maybe he only had one Rune-container handy and there was some reason he
>>>> wanted the Front Gate Rune in particular? (He may also have thought that
>>>> he knew where the Souleater was going to be for the foreseeable future,
>>>> which would have meant he could take his time grabbing it.)

>>>
>>> That's possible. Actually... wow. I know it's supposed to be Sarah's
>>> Pale Gate Rune but... they do an AWFUL lot of summoning of extra help
>>> in SIII. Maybe the Harmonians _do_ have the Front Gate...

>>
>> Sarah's "summons" are illusions, though--she can't even equip a Pale Gate
>> Rune,

>
> Oh that's right.
>

>> her head slot is permanently occupied by a Flowing Rune (but she is
>> highly skilled in Pale Gate magic. Go figure.) I suspect that, in the
>> cases where *real* monsters turn up in III, Yuber is the true summoner.
>> (On the gripping hand, Sarah *could* equip Front Gate--I'm given to
>> understand that it doesn't occupy one of the normal slot locations . . .)

>
> We learn that the Front Gate Rune is the elusive left-butt-cheek-slot
> rune.

>>> Also, I can see the Sovereign Rune being highly coveted by Hikusaak for
>>> obvious reasons. I can see why if he was somehow there, focusing on
>>> getting that and waiting to get Souleater when McDohl is not surrounded
>>> by 107 other extremely powerful warriors, mages, and washerwomen.

>>
>> Especially the washerwomen--can't have him being forced to clean up his
>> act.
>>
>>

>
> *is still groaning, and had read this originally several days ago*

>>>>> Moreover (you wouldn't know this) you go up against some Harmonian
>>>>> units in II--when Pes is still an SOD.

>>>>
>>>> Hikusaak hasn't been much seen in Harmonia for a long time, though, and we
>>>> know their internal politics are pretty durned baroque. Perhaps he
>>>> invented the Pesmerga identity to give himself the freedom to act against
>>>> any Harmonian faction whose behaviour he didn't like *without*
>>>> destabilizing the whole country. I mean, if Hikusaak were to act openly
>>>> for or against *any* internal Harmonian faction, it'd be like dumping a
>>>> ton of bricks on one side of a scale . . .

>>>
>>> Hmm... and again, I realize, with Highland losing the war with Jowston,
>>> ANOTHER True Rune gets let loose, the True Beast Rune. So again, get
>>> that one while everyone else is fixated on the two halves of the Rune
>>> of Beginning.
>>>
>>> Plus if he was paying attention, now he knows Sierra got the Moon Roon
>>> back from Neclord and can keep tabs on that as well, not to mention is
>>> aware of the Night Rune's existence as well. Maybe there's a reason why
>>> Edge is walking around with the Star Dragon Sword instead of Viktor or
>>> whoever these days (though taking it _closer_ to Harmonia doesn't make
>>> much sense).

>>
>> . . . unless you consider it to be a variant of what Geddoe's doing:
>> hiding in plain sight, right under Hikusaak's nose.

>
> True 'nuff.

>>>>> Still a neat idea though. It's something to play around with.

>>>>
>>>> Okay, I admit I don't think it's all that likely either, but like you say,
>>>> a neat idea.

>>>
>>> What's scary is it's starting to make more sense.... and even if it's
>>> not Hikusaak, one of his servants or something would make sense.
>>> Perhaps Pes's battle with Yuber is even a fabrication? Just a "cover
>>> story" to explain why he's there.

>>
>> If their Runes are fundamentally opposed, I think the battle is quite real.

>
> Possibly.. though Yuber and Pesmerga seemed to have a personal vendetta
> thing as well...

>>> And since Harmonia clearly has its hands full in SIII, it explains why
>>> Pesmerga doesn't show up even when Yuber is running around and making
>>> himself quite visible.

>>
>> Although not why Hikusaak would have promoted his boss, Luc, to Bishop.

>
> Well, theoretically, even though Luc was a clone of Hikusaak, he had
> been outside Hikusaak's influence seeing as he was an apprentice of
> Leknaat and all... Luc may have returned to Harmonia, been promoted to
> Bishop, and THEN hired Yuber, who he was familiar with because of his
> actions against the two armies Luc was in before... and Yuber is never
> IN Harmonia but doing dirty work for Luc outside of it.

>

>>>> Geddoe, by the time we meet him, has had to deal with his immortality for
>>>> longer than any other "on-screen" Suikoden character but Joshua Levenheit,

>>
>> [forgot about Leknaat, Windy, and Ted there]

>
> Well, figured they were kind of not counting anyway in terms of
> considering their relationships with others.
>
> Though Ted is unusual in that he starts off standoffish and doesn't
> grow close to others until he comes close to the end of his life. Maybe
> he knows it's about to end for him?

>
>

>>>>>> On Tir, I agree with you. Lazlo we don't know is still alive after almost 200
>>>>>> years, and even if he is, I doubt he'd leave the sea.

>>>>>
>>>>> He's theoretically still alive... but likely would stay a recluse.
>>>>> After all, if he _does_ get killed, I think that means the Rune of
>>>>> Punishment goes back to its cursed state.

>>>>
>>>> He theoretically *could* still be alive, yes--or he could have fallen off
>>>> a cliff on some lonely island and broken his neck. Unless the Rune of
>>>> Punishment resurfaces, I doubt we'll ever find out.

>>>
>>> You never know. WHen they make Suikoden X they might decide to point
>>> out decisively where all 27 True Runes are.

>>
>> If the series ends with a bang and not a whimper, maybe. I'm not betting
>> on it.

>
> Suikoden's getting more popular, not less... though I DOUBT it will
> seriously get up to X I think there will likely be a VI (probably for
> the new PS) and hopefully will be quite good.

>
>

>>>>>> Putting her with Hikusaak would run into
>>>>>> the same problem as with Sasarai . . . but on the other hand, I can see
>>>>>> him seducing her as part of some arcane plot to steal True Water.

>>>>>
>>>>> Possibly... although I have trouble imagining him seducing anyone....
>>>>> does he ever even leave Harmonia? But we know so little about him,
>>>>> really (apart from the fact that presumably he resembles Luc and
>>>>> Sasarai).

>>>>
>>>> Physically, anyway--personalitywise, it's really hard to tell, since we
>>>> know nothing about his early background or even, really, the world he
>>>> lived in as a child--it might have been a very different place from the
>>>> modern Suikoverse. And Luc and Sasarai themselves weren't exactly greatly
>>>> alike in personality.

>>>
>>> They both had a certain amount of arrogance, though Sasarai is
>>> generally more congenial.

>>
>> Mmh. I'm currently trying to deal with Hikusaak as a character in my
>> 'fic--it's hard.

>
> It's hard to write anyone when all you know about them is "generic
> control-freak megalomaniac."

>>>>>> or Milia

>>>>>
>>>>> Now _there's_ an interesting idea; I'd forgotten Milia. I think both
>>>>> Chris and Milia are too bound to their own respective duties... but who
>>>>> knows? Milia is more direct and would also likely want to try to live a
>>>>> bit of a normal life, understanding she's got a long life to live.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Course, Sharon would probably die of embarrassment... "Mo-OOOM! Ew! I
>>>>> served in the Fire Bringer with her!"

>>>>
>>>> In a skewed way, I can almost see Chris, many years later, giving over
>>>> leadership of the Zexen Knights to a much older Percival and setting out
>>>> to wander, possibly on the grounds that the people of Zexen have been
>>>> treating her increasingly like a goddess, and it's getting suffocating . . .

>>>
>>> All True Rune bearers seem doomed to wander sooner or later...

>>
>> . . . except the holder of the Dragon Rune, or those whose Runes are in
>> the form of swords. (Well, okay, Viktor and Edge were wanderers, but we
>> don't have any reason to believe Barbarossa was, do we?)

>
> Yes... and Viktor actually abandoned the Night Sword at the beginning
> of II and it had to be recovered again. Thoguh this was largely just so
> you had to go through one more freaking dungeon maze.

>>>though
>>> it would be hard to convince her to leave her duty even then. But if
>>> Zexen was relying on her over-much, I can see her leaving for its own
>>> good.

>>
>> Or if Zexen fell apart for some reason outside her control, like a natural
>> disaster taking out Vinay del Zexay, maybe. (At first, I expect she'd
>> stay at Brass Castle and try to keep things together as best she could,
>> but as the years passed and the balance of power shifted . . .)

>
> Yep... especially depending on HOW that power shifted...
>
> She could quietly hang out at Budehuc for awhile.

>>>
>>>

>>>>>>>> E. Liddell--page 140-something. And when I'm done, I'm going to have to
>>>>>>>> go and backfill foreshadowing and clean up the bits where I wasn't
>>>>>>>> entirely sure what was happening--it took me nearly a hundred and twenty
>>>>>>>> pages to figure out who Nash was working for, frex, and I only figured out
>>>>>>>> who betrayed the rebel leader today. Might be close to 200 pages by the
>>>>>>>> time I'm willing to let it out of my hands.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am in awe. I don't think I've ever written anything that long.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Double-spaced pages, I should note, though. Nor is it the longest thing
>>>>>> I've ever written--I seem to be a natural novelist. My family thinks I'm
>>>>>> crazy, lavishing this kind of time and effort on something I can't ever
>>>>>> publish. Unfortunately, inspiration, like lightning, strikes where it
>>>>>> will.

>>>>>
>>>>> I sometimes berate myself for writing fanfiction rather than work on my
>>>>> original stuff but... you know, it's good practice and I have fun. And
>>>>> particularly, I like to write characters but am poor at plotting.
>>>>> Writing fanfic forces me to focus on plotting since the characters are
>>>>> already established. Granted, many of my fics are still
>>>>> character/dialogue oriented but it's actually still helped me improve
>>>>> my writing a lot.

>>>>
>>>> Also, if one is lucky, it gives one a certain amount of experience writing
>>>> endings, a skill which sometimes differs from that of writing beginnings . . .

>>>
>>> Very true. In fact, I learned a trick that for some stories I write the
>>> conclusion to a story first and then write the rest... I did that with
>>> my Shiori fic.

>>
>> I'm one of those people who has to write in order, alas.

>
> I either prefer to go from start to finish, or I imagine out "scenes"
> that I'd like to see, then write the scene and then fill in the
> beginning and ending later.
>
> As I've gotten older, I've started to outline plot a little more...
> something I was loath to do when I was younger.

>>>>>>>*still
>>>>>>> waiting for that attention span I put on order awhi..........*

>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sometimes claim I have the attention span of an . . . Ooh, *shiny*! I
>>>>>> can usually force it to drift back after a couple of hours, though.

>>>>>
>>>>> I have little writing discipline... and in fact, after the insane bout
>>>>> of working on three fics at once I've drifted off a bit (though did get
>>>>> some outlining done for my original work)... it's time to stop goofing
>>>>> off at message boards again, I think.

>>>>
>>>> I have no problem with writing discipline; it's just that everything
>>>> *else* in my life ends up suffering because of it.

>>>
>>> I always have several projects going on of varying ilk... and all of
>>> which may get put off if I get sucked into playing a game or watching
>>> anime. There's too much I want to do.

>>
>> Exactly.
>>

>>> ANd then there's the Internet, which I'm addicted to surfing even when
>>> I _know_ there is nothing I need to find....
>>>
>>> But despite that, I have one ROD fic actually threatening to be
>>> finished. It's not great, but if nothing else it's been a fun character
>>> study. I'll probably throw it on to ff.net once it's done and see if I
>>> can fish for some feedback.

>>
>> Not that the type of feedback you get on ff.net is worth much--that's one
>> of the many reasons I don't post stuff there.

>
> I don't know whereelse to post it; at least I get SOME feedback there,
> even if it's not much. I post to my Website of course, but only a
> handful of people will see that (though those who do respond to the Web
> site usually do give more detailed responses).