Sorry... got some freelance editing work and got distracted from the
important conversations... ^^
E. Liddell wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:45:02 -0700, spam wrote:
>
>>
>> E. Liddell wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:43:04 -0700, spam wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> E. Liddell wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:24:10 -0700, spam wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah. You have to imagine these monsters aren't very smart. Or that
>>>>>>>> they keep filling their chests up with treasure after people keep
>>>>>>>> coming along and killing them for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You'd think entire species would have been wiped out by now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It also makes you wonder how some of the smaller settlements survive, and
>>>>>>> whether attacks on merchant caravans result in abnormally high prices for
>>>>>>> imported goods . . . Maybe that's why armour is so expensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always thought metallic minerals must be very rare.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's possible, and would explain all the reforging-of-old-weapons. Of
>>>>> course, it's quite possible that it's both, and all the weapons and armour
>>>>> are getting shipped out from . . . isn't there someplace in Dunan that
>>>>> specializes in ironmongery? . . . and half the shipments aren't making it
>>>>> to destination.
>>>>
>>>> It's possible.
>>>>
>>>> I remember in IV there was talk of "bad iron"... which is why it takes
>>>> quite a bit of work to get good iron on the market. Obviously this was
>>>> 150 years in the past, but it seems like perhaps there's only a few
>>>> good iron sources in the world, and the trade for it isn't well
>>>> managed. And it's possible places like Harmonia hoard it.
>>>
>>> Random thought: I wonder if the Sindar, or some other early civilization,
>>> mined some areas out and then stashed the results in some place that's
>>> become inaccessible?
>>
>> That would at least explain the chests full of rare items in the Sindar
>> ruins.
>
> I thought those were created by the Rune of Video Game Cliches. (I mean,
> come on, why is it that all these lost civilizations left unlocked chests
> with Stuff in them dotted around inside their ruins?
Not to mention of course being able to just walk into someone's house
and take their stuff and not have them have a problem with it. (I was
actually surprised in FF VII when I robbed the child and there was
actually a consequence... not that I was really aware that I was
robbing the child at the time... just seemed like another place to
loot...)
> At least the
> corpse-robbing thing in III was marginally more realistic, although it
> failed to explain why someone out in the back of beyond would be carrying,
> say, a dog kennel around, or why additional items would appear if you left
> a corpse alone for long enough . . .)
Well, it's that's where people kept dying... maybe it's where the dog
kennel carriers of the world go to die.
It got irritating that some characters would rob corpses and others
wouldn't though. It got hard keeping track of how often I checked the
bodies.
This discussion sounds very disturbing.
>>> ( I'm sitting here debating the economics of a world in a video
>>> game with someone I've never met face-to-face--should I get my geek hat
>>> out?)
>>
>> Sweetie, I've been dancing around in my entire Geek Uniform since this
>> conversation started. ^^
>
> I'll have to unearth mine, then--I think it's still boxed up from the
> move. ;P
Did you find it? :)
>
>
>>>> Yes--well, and III required special attention because you could so
>>>> easily interrupt casting (I would stick Geddoe in the back way far away
>>>> from the action and he'd STILL get hit casting a spell... this isn't a
>>>> problem late in the game but it was a big pain for me at the
>>>> beginning). I have to say I preferred the games where they didn't have
>>>> the casting interruption thing.... or at least in V where it was
>>>> possible but far less of an issue.
>>>
>>> Among the first things I did with Geddoe was max out his Lightning Magic
>>> skill--after that, interruptions ceased to be much of a problem.
>>
>> Well, of course, but at the very beginning I had trouble. Esp since
>> IIRC there seems to be a period early on where when you have access to
>> a trainer you have few skill points, and when you finally gain a lot of
>> skill points, you're nowhere near (or would have to do a lot of
>> backtracking) a trainer.
>
> I remember running back to Brass Castle a lot. It may also help that I
> don't use magic all that much unless I'm desperate (or am going from A to
> B, where B does not contain a boss monster, and get jumped by a big pack
> of something that's just a little too tough for me either to kill off by
> hand in one round or guarantee being able to run away from).
I use magic a lot because I'm lazy. I am really into mass damage
spells; the more possible it is for me to elimate the entire group of
attacking mosnters in one round, the more I use magic. It has nothing
to do with power level and more that I have it in my head that magic
will make the fight go faster. Now, if fights were less common and more
challenging, I probably would do this less.
>>
>>
>>>>> Random wild theory--could Pesmerga be Hikusaak in disguise?
>>>>
>>>> My gut says no. I doubt Hikusaak would _help_ someone else get their
>>>> hands on a True Rune without trying to make a play for it... (unless he
>>>> made a grab for the Sovereign and Front Gate Runes at the end of I...
>>>> but I just can't see him letting Souleater walk away from him).
>>>
>>> Maybe he only had one Rune-container handy and there was some reason he
>>> wanted the Front Gate Rune in particular? (He may also have thought that
>>> he knew where the Souleater was going to be for the foreseeable future,
>>> which would have meant he could take his time grabbing it.)
>>
>> That's possible. Actually... wow. I know it's supposed to be Sarah's
>> Pale Gate Rune but... they do an AWFUL lot of summoning of extra help
>> in SIII. Maybe the Harmonians _do_ have the Front Gate...
>
> Sarah's "summons" are illusions, though--she can't even equip a Pale Gate
> Rune,
Oh that's right.
> her head slot is permanently occupied by a Flowing Rune (but she is
> highly skilled in Pale Gate magic. Go figure.) I suspect that, in the
> cases where *real* monsters turn up in III, Yuber is the true summoner.
> (On the gripping hand, Sarah *could* equip Front Gate--I'm given to
> understand that it doesn't occupy one of the normal slot locations . . .)
We learn that the Front Gate Rune is the elusive left-butt-cheek-slot
rune.
>> Also, I can see the Sovereign Rune being highly coveted by Hikusaak for
>> obvious reasons. I can see why if he was somehow there, focusing on
>> getting that and waiting to get Souleater when McDohl is not surrounded
>> by 107 other extremely powerful warriors, mages, and washerwomen.
>
> Especially the washerwomen--can't have him being forced to clean up his
> act.
>
>
*is still groaning, and had read this originally several days ago*
>>>> Moreover (you wouldn't know this) you go up against some Harmonian
>>>> units in II--when Pes is still an SOD.
>>>
>>> Hikusaak hasn't been much seen in Harmonia for a long time, though, and we
>>> know their internal politics are pretty durned baroque. Perhaps he
>>> invented the Pesmerga identity to give himself the freedom to act against
>>> any Harmonian faction whose behaviour he didn't like *without*
>>> destabilizing the whole country. I mean, if Hikusaak were to act openly
>>> for or against *any* internal Harmonian faction, it'd be like dumping a
>>> ton of bricks on one side of a scale . . .
>>
>> Hmm... and again, I realize, with Highland losing the war with Jowston,
>> ANOTHER True Rune gets let loose, the True Beast Rune. So again, get
>> that one while everyone else is fixated on the two halves of the Rune
>> of Beginning.
>>
>> Plus if he was paying attention, now he knows Sierra got the Moon Roon
>> back from Neclord and can keep tabs on that as well, not to mention is
>> aware of the Night Rune's existence as well. Maybe there's a reason why
>> Edge is walking around with the Star Dragon Sword instead of Viktor or
>> whoever these days (though taking it _closer_ to Harmonia doesn't make
>> much sense).
>
> . . . unless you consider it to be a variant of what Geddoe's doing:
> hiding in plain sight, right under Hikusaak's nose.
True 'nuff.
>>>> Still a neat idea though. It's something to play around with.
>>>
>>> Okay, I admit I don't think it's all that likely either, but like you say,
>>> a neat idea.
>>
>> What's scary is it's starting to make more sense.... and even if it's
>> not Hikusaak, one of his servants or something would make sense.
>> Perhaps Pes's battle with Yuber is even a fabrication? Just a "cover
>> story" to explain why he's there.
>
> If their Runes are fundamentally opposed, I think the battle is quite real.
Possibly.. though Yuber and Pesmerga seemed to have a personal vendetta
thing as well...
>> And since Harmonia clearly has its hands full in SIII, it explains why
>> Pesmerga doesn't show up even when Yuber is running around and making
>> himself quite visible.
>
> Although not why Hikusaak would have promoted his boss, Luc, to Bishop.
Well, theoretically, even though Luc was a clone of Hikusaak, he had
been outside Hikusaak's influence seeing as he was an apprentice of
Leknaat and all... Luc may have returned to Harmonia, been promoted to
Bishop, and THEN hired Yuber, who he was familiar with because of his
actions against the two armies Luc was in before... and Yuber is never
IN Harmonia but doing dirty work for Luc outside of it.
>>>>> Percival would still be better,
>>>>> though--judging from what he's like in the game, he may shape up into
>>>>> someone quite extraordinary as he gets older.
>>>>
>>>> He's got a lot of potential, and he's fiery at times without being too
>>>> impulsive or unthinking like Borus. He also really tries to be a
>>>> _friend_ to Chris, unlike the others, who are either constantly
>>>> subservient or flirtatious.
>>>>
>>>> But there's the problem with any of the Zexen knights in that she'd
>>>> feel like it would be inappropriate to have a romance with them... and
>>>> she IS the kind of person who would let duty stand in the way of her
>>>> personal life (running off to find out about her father
>>>> notwithstanding).
>>>
>>> I think Percival, at least, would understand the "duty trumps love" part .
>>> . . but you're right that Chris wouldn't be at all happy about sleeping
>>> with someone under her command. I guess one or the other of them would
>>> have to leave the Knights first.
>>
>> And I can actually see Percival doing that in certain circumstances...
>> especially if he wanted to take leave to go see how Iksay was
>> rebuilding. He would have his own thing while only being about a day's
>> ride from both Vinay del Zexay and the Brass Castle so that he could
>> meet with Chris easily enough for a leisurely visit...
>
> Ah, but would he be nearly as impressive without his nice, shiny armour?
> ;P
Yes. We see him in his civvies in the manga and he's a cutie. ^^ (in
the manga, he and Chris change into their "Street clothes" for the
Iksay festival)
>>> Geddoe, by the time we meet him, has had to deal with his immortality for
>>> longer than any other "on-screen" Suikoden character but Joshua Levenheit,
>
> [forgot about Leknaat, Windy, and Ted there]
Well, figured they were kind of not counting anyway in terms of
considering their relationships with others.
Though Ted is unusual in that he starts off standoffish and doesn't
grow close to others until he comes close to the end of his life. Maybe
he knows it's about to end for him?
>>>>> On Tir, I agree with you. Lazlo we don't know is still alive after almost 200
>>>>> years, and even if he is, I doubt he'd leave the sea.
>>>>
>>>> He's theoretically still alive... but likely would stay a recluse.
>>>> After all, if he _does_ get killed, I think that means the Rune of
>>>> Punishment goes back to its cursed state.
>>>
>>> He theoretically *could* still be alive, yes--or he could have fallen off
>>> a cliff on some lonely island and broken his neck. Unless the Rune of
>>> Punishment resurfaces, I doubt we'll ever find out.
>>
>> You never know. WHen they make Suikoden X they might decide to point
>> out decisively where all 27 True Runes are.
>
> If the series ends with a bang and not a whimper, maybe. I'm not betting
> on it.
Suikoden's getting more popular, not less... though I DOUBT it will
seriously get up to X I think there will likely be a VI (probably for
the new PS) and hopefully will be quite good.
>>>>> Putting her with Hikusaak would run into
>>>>> the same problem as with Sasarai . . . but on the other hand, I can see
>>>>> him seducing her as part of some arcane plot to steal True Water.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly... although I have trouble imagining him seducing anyone....
>>>> does he ever even leave Harmonia? But we know so little about him,
>>>> really (apart from the fact that presumably he resembles Luc and
>>>> Sasarai).
>>>
>>> Physically, anyway--personalitywise, it's really hard to tell, since we
>>> know nothing about his early background or even, really, the world he
>>> lived in as a child--it might have been a very different place from the
>>> modern Suikoverse. And Luc and Sasarai themselves weren't exactly greatly
>>> alike in personality.
>>
>> They both had a certain amount of arrogance, though Sasarai is
>> generally more congenial.
>
> Mmh. I'm currently trying to deal with Hikusaak as a character in my
> 'fic--it's hard.
It's hard to write anyone when all you know about them is "generic
control-freak megalomaniac."
>>>>> I guess that leaves Jeane
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't get close to anyone; they might learn her "secret." But it's a
>>>> lovely fantasy for fanboys everywhere to have.
>>>
>>> Which version of her secret, though? (You could get a really
>>> weird story out of Chris wandering in and out of the lives of generations
>>> of similar-but-not-identical Jeanes . . .)
>>
>> Hee! Hey, maybe Jeane actually clones herself... it's not so much a
>> family but she just passes down her memories to the next vessel once
>> the old one is spent. They're nearly identical, but the occasional
>> mutation makes one a little different, like having pink hair instead of
>> silver.
>
> Question is, did she steal the technique from Hikusaak, or the other way
> around?
Hmmm.... good question. I'd say the former, as I doubt she'd let
someone steal anything from her. A woman looks like THAT yet no one
ever gets a hand on her.
>>>>> or Milia
>>>>
>>>> Now _there's_ an interesting idea; I'd forgotten Milia. I think both
>>>> Chris and Milia are too bound to their own respective duties... but who
>>>> knows? Milia is more direct and would also likely want to try to live a
>>>> bit of a normal life, understanding she's got a long life to live.
>>>>
>>>> 'Course, Sharon would probably die of embarrassment... "Mo-OOOM! Ew! I
>>>> served in the Fire Bringer with her!"
>>>
>>> In a skewed way, I can almost see Chris, many years later, giving over
>>> leadership of the Zexen Knights to a much older Percival and setting out
>>> to wander, possibly on the grounds that the people of Zexen have been
>>> treating her increasingly like a goddess, and it's getting suffocating . . .
>>
>> All True Rune bearers seem doomed to wander sooner or later...
>
> . . . except the holder of the Dragon Rune, or those whose Runes are in
> the form of swords. (Well, okay, Viktor and Edge were wanderers, but we
> don't have any reason to believe Barbarossa was, do we?)
Yes... and Viktor actually abandoned the Night Sword at the beginning
of II and it had to be recovered again. Thoguh this was largely just so
you had to go through one more freaking dungeon maze.
>>though
>> it would be hard to convince her to leave her duty even then. But if
>> Zexen was relying on her over-much, I can see her leaving for its own
>> good.
>
> Or if Zexen fell apart for some reason outside her control, like a natural
> disaster taking out Vinay del Zexay, maybe. (At first, I expect she'd
> stay at Brass Castle and try to keep things together as best she could,
> but as the years passed and the balance of power shifted . . .)
Yep... especially depending on HOW that power shifted...
She could quietly hang out at Budehuc for awhile.
>>
>>
>>>>>>> E. Liddell--page 140-something. And when I'm done, I'm going to have to
>>>>>>> go and backfill foreshadowing and clean up the bits where I wasn't
>>>>>>> entirely sure what was happening--it took me nearly a hundred and twenty
>>>>>>> pages to figure out who Nash was working for, frex, and I only figured out
>>>>>>> who betrayed the rebel leader today. Might be close to 200 pages by the
>>>>>>> time I'm willing to let it out of my hands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am in awe. I don't think I've ever written anything that long.
>>>>>
>>>>> Double-spaced pages, I should note, though. Nor is it the longest thing
>>>>> I've ever written--I seem to be a natural novelist. My family thinks I'm
>>>>> crazy, lavishing this kind of time and effort on something I can't ever
>>>>> publish. Unfortunately, inspiration, like lightning, strikes where it
>>>>> will.
>>>>
>>>> I sometimes berate myself for writing fanfiction rather than work on my
>>>> original stuff but... you know, it's good practice and I have fun. And
>>>> particularly, I like to write characters but am poor at plotting.
>>>> Writing fanfic forces me to focus on plotting since the characters are
>>>> already established. Granted, many of my fics are still
>>>> character/dialogue oriented but it's actually still helped me improve
>>>> my writing a lot.
>>>
>>> Also, if one is lucky, it gives one a certain amount of experience writing
>>> endings, a skill which sometimes differs from that of writing beginnings . . .
>>
>> Very true. In fact, I learned a trick that for some stories I write the
>> conclusion to a story first and then write the rest... I did that with
>> my Shiori fic.
>
> I'm one of those people who has to write in order, alas.
I either prefer to go from start to finish, or I imagine out "scenes"
that I'd like to see, then write the scene and then fill in the
beginning and ending later.
As I've gotten older, I've started to outline plot a little more...
something I was loath to do when I was younger.
>>>>>>*still
>>>>>> waiting for that attention span I put on order awhi..........*
>>>>>
>>>>> I sometimes claim I have the attention span of an . . . Ooh, *shiny*! I
>>>>> can usually force it to drift back after a couple of hours, though.
>>>>
>>>> I have little writing discipline... and in fact, after the insane bout
>>>> of working on three fics at once I've drifted off a bit (though did get
>>>> some outlining done for my original work)... it's time to stop goofing
>>>> off at message boards again, I think.
>>>
>>> I have no problem with writing discipline; it's just that everything
>>> *else* in my life ends up suffering because of it.
>>
>> I always have several projects going on of varying ilk... and all of
>> which may get put off if I get sucked into playing a game or watching
>> anime. There's too much I want to do.
>
> Exactly.
>
>> ANd then there's the Internet, which I'm addicted to surfing even when
>> I _know_ there is nothing I need to find....
>>
>> But despite that, I have one ROD fic actually threatening to be
>> finished. It's not great, but if nothing else it's been a fun character
>> study. I'll probably throw it on to
ff.net once it's done and see if I
>> can fish for some feedback.
>
> Not that the type of feedback you get on
ff.net is worth much--that's one
> of the many reasons I don't post stuff there.
I don't know whereelse to post it; at least I get SOME feedback there,
even if it's not much. I post to my Website of course, but only a
handful of people will see that (though those who do respond to the Web
site usually do give more detailed responses).
DQ
