280V motor on 230V circuit
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: May 12, 2008 13:00

In alt.engineering.electrical Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:

| A shame that Tesla won the infamous "battle" and we don't have DC:-() But
| then, we would be having a power plant at each neighborhood, instead of the
| 300 MW ones.

And the latter make easy terrorism targets, too.

| I know, I know, my answer was a bit provocative:-) And of course there are
| DC regulators.... You're talking about DC generators;the one a 300 MW uses
| for excitation is 220 V, 1000 A DC and probably shunt field. I have seen
| here in some machine shops the old type welding generator, which is a 3
| phase induction motor coupled to (usually) a compound field DC generator,
| which provides the welding current. The modern ones are, maybe, not larger
| than a shoe box and powered by a higher wattage 230 V 16 A receptacle.
| (Usual receptacles are 230 V 10 A;16 A for washing machines, dryers and the
| like).

You don't use 400 V for anything heavy duty like an oven?
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: danny burstein
Date: May 12, 2008 13:02

In news5.newsguy.com> phil-news-nospam@ipal.net writes:
>In alt.engineering.electrical Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
>| A shame that Tesla won the infamous "battle" and we don't have DC:-() But
>| then, we would be having a power plant at each neighborhood, instead of the
>| 300 MW ones.
>And the latter make easy terrorism targets, too.

And so does that 20 gallons of gasoline parked
in front of your house. And that 500 gallons
of diesel fuel in your basment. And that 20,000
or so gallons in the nearby gas station.

Yawn.

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: May 12, 2008 13:05

In alt.engineering.electrical Michael Moroney world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:

| Are the load tap generators configured make-before-break?
| Break-before-make would mean a (very short) power outage every activation
| but make-before-break would mean a momentarily short-circuited winding and
| the break would involve interrupting a large short circuit current.

I wonder how much regulation could be managed through the use of variable
leakage inductance in the transformer windings.

| Certainly modern ones likely use thyristors and zero crossing detectors.

With zero crossing detection, then the switching is not happening on all phases
at the same time.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: James Sweet
Date: May 12, 2008 13:06

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> In alt.engineering.electrical Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
>
> | A shame that Tesla won the infamous "battle" and we don't have DC:-() But
> | then, we would be having a power plant at each neighborhood, instead of the
> | 300 MW ones.
>
> And the latter make easy terrorism targets, too.
>
>
> | I know, I know, my answer was a bit provocative:-) And of course there are
> | DC regulators.... You're talking about DC generators;the one a 300 MW uses
> | for excitation is 220 V, 1000 A DC and probably shunt field. I have seen
> | here in some machine shops the old type welding generator, which is a 3
> | phase induction motor coupled to (usually) a compound field DC generator,
> | which provides the welding current. The modern ones are, maybe, not larger
> | than a shoe box and powered by a higher wattage 230 V 16 A receptacle.
> | (Usual receptacles are 230 V 10 A;16 A for washing machines, dryers and the
> | like).
> ...
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Michael Moroney
Date: May 12, 2008 13:25

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net writes:
>In alt.engineering.electrical Michael Moroney world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
>| Are the load tap generators configured make-before-break?
>| Break-before-make would mean a (very short) power outage every activation
>| but make-before-break would mean a momentarily short-circuited winding and
>| the break would involve interrupting a large short circuit current.
>I wonder how much regulation could be managed through the use of variable
>leakage inductance in the transformer windings.

Good question.
>| Certainly modern ones likely use thyristors and zero crossing detectors.
>With zero crossing detection, then the switching is not happening on all phases
>at the same time.

Since the ones I've seen are 3 (or 2) independent autotransformers, this
is true without zero crossing detectors, and the power supplied may not
always be of equal voltages 120 degrees apart.
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: daestrom
Date: May 12, 2008 14:05

"Michael Moroney" world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message
news:g0a1o5$bcq$1@pcls6.std.com...
> "daestrom" NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> writes:
>
>
>>P.S. In the US, a 'tap-changer' may be built for either for unloaded or
>>loaded operation. The 'unloaded' type can not be stepped to another tap
>>while there is load on the unit (although it can still be energized).
>>It's
>>switch contacts cannot interrupt load though, so if you try to move it
>>while
>>loaded, you can burn up the tap-changer. The classic 'load-tap-changer'
>>is
>>actually several switches that are controlled in a precise sequence to
>>shift
>>the load from one tap of the transformer to another while not interrupting
>>the load current.
>
>>P.P.S. Load tap changers typically have a significant time-delay built
>>into ...
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: daestrom
Date: May 12, 2008 14:07

ipal.net> wrote in message
news:g0a7ts1t0c@news5.newsguy.com...
> In alt.engineering.electrical Michael Moroney
> world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
>
> | Are the load tap generators configured make-before-break?
> | Break-before-make would mean a (very short) power outage every
> activation
> | but make-before-break would mean a momentarily short-circuited winding
> and
> | the break would involve interrupting a large short circuit current.
>
> I wonder how much regulation could be managed through the use of variable
> leakage inductance in the transformer windings.
>

I suppose you could, but increasing leakage inductance means you're
increasing losses aren't you? Just a percent or two on a unit rated for 250
MVA can be too much to tolerate.

daestrom
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: daestrom
Date: May 12, 2008 14:15

"Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" wrote in message
news:g09ehs$9fl$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
>
> ? "daestrom" NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> ?????? ??? ??????
> news:482725ae$0$30509$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> P.S. In the US, a 'tap-changer' may be built for either for unloaded or
>> loaded operation. The 'unloaded' type can not be stepped to another tap
>> while there is load on the unit (although it can still be energized).
>> It's switch contacts cannot interrupt load though, so if you try to move
>> it while loaded, you can burn up the tap-changer. The classic
>> 'load-tap-changer' is actually several switches that are controlled in a
>> precise sequence to shift the load from one tap of the transformer to
>> another while not interrupting the load current.
>>
>> P.P.S. Load tap changers typically have a significant time-delay built
>> into the controls so they do not 'hunt' or respond to short drops in
>> voltage such as starting a large load. 15 seconds to several minutes is
>> typical. So even with load-tap-changers, starting a single load that is
>> a high percentage of the system capacity will *still* result in a voltage ...
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Andrew Gabriel
Date: May 12, 2008 16:45

In article news5.newsguy.com>,
phil-news-nospam@ipal.net writes:
>
> You don't use 400 V for anything heavy duty like an oven?

Some parts of Europe do. You find ovens can be strapped to
run from one or two phases, depending what's available on
the premises. Some parts of Europe use 3-phase 400V domestic
water heaters.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: maarten
Date: May 12, 2008 18:50

In sci.electronics.repair jakdedert bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I'm a little confused about a 230 volt circuit. In what part of the
> world does the utility supply 230v?

Continental Europe used to have 220 volts (before that it was 127 volts in
some places), the UK used to have 240 volts. Nowadays, the common voltage
is 230 volts -10%% +6%%.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.
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