280V motor on 230V circuit
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: charles
Date: May 9, 2008 09:06

In article <48246bdc$0$657$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
Andrew Gabriel cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article ,
> Thomas Tornblom writes:
>> Residential power in Sweden is 400V 3 phase, main fuses normally 25A
>> or lower.
>>
>> Room outlets are wired with one phase, neutral and ground to get 230V.
>>
>> There is a smallish transformer station in the neighborhood which
>> probably powers two entire blocks. I would guess somewhere around 20-30
>> houses.
> Similar in UK.
> In most European countries, there's a single phase current limit,
> above which you have to take a 3-phase supply. In the UK, that's
> 100A, so it's not very common to have a 3-phase supply although
> you can ask for one if you want a 3-phase supply. In some other
> European countries, the single phase limit is as low as 20A, so
> just about everyone has a 3-phase supply.
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: May 9, 2008 12:55

In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| In article ,
| "James Sweet" hotmail.com> writes:
|>
|> It's not 110V, it's 240V, we simply split it with a grounded center tap
|> which gives 120V between each side and neutral, or 240V between the sides..
|
| It's the regulation at 120V which people notice.
| If you want to call it a 240V supply, then you
| need to call EU supplies 400V or 415V. That's
| equally misleading.

The effect of loading and how it affects voltage depends on how well balanced
the TWO 120 volts phases are. If they are in balance, then the effect of the
loading on the voltage works as if you were considering the voltage at 240 volts.

If you get a three phase supply, and keep it balanced with the single phase
line to neutral loads, then the voltage regulation is going to be just like you
had loaded it with line-to-line loads, 208 volts in North America and 400 volts
in Europe.
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
Date: May 10, 2008 07:44

? "Andrew Gabriel" cucumber.demon.co.uk> ?????? ??? ??????
news:48246da4$0$657$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> In article ,
> "James Sweet" hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> It's not 110V, it's 240V, we simply split it with a grounded center tap
>> which gives 120V between each side and neutral, or 240V between the
>> sides..
>
> It's the regulation at 120V which people notice.
> If you want to call it a 240V supply, then you
> need to call EU supplies 400V or 415V. That's
> equally misleading.
>
>> There's no transformer per house, except rural applications. Generally
>> 5-10
>> houses are on each transformer, sometimes more. The problem with long
>> runs
>> is that the voltage fluctuates substantially with large loads such as
>> central air conditioning. Standard North American residential service is ...
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Andrew Gabriel
Date: May 10, 2008 08:43

In article ,
"Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" writes:
>
> ? "Andrew Gabriel" cucumber.demon.co.uk> ?????? ??? ??????
> news:48246da4$0$657$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>> In article ,
>> "James Sweet" hotmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> It's not 110V, it's 240V, we simply split it with a grounded center tap
>>> which gives 120V between each side and neutral, or 240V between the
>>> sides..
>>
>> It's the regulation at 120V which people notice.
>> If you want to call it a 240V supply, then you
>> need to call EU supplies 400V or 415V. That's
>> equally misleading.
>>
>>> There's no transformer per house, except rural applications. Generally
>>> 5-10
>>> houses are on each transformer, sometimes more. The problem with long ...
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: May 10, 2008 09:29

In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:

| I'm referring to the transformer regulation (and also the LV
| supply cable voltage drop) response to load changes. E.g. if
| I switch on my 10kW shower, that's a 0.1%% change against the
| max load of my 1MVA substation transformer and therefore
| makes no perceivable difference to the voltage in my house.
| If I were to try that on a US 50kVA transformer, that load
| is going to trigger a change of 20%% of the transformer
| regulation, which is much more significant and would
| certainly be visible as a brightness change in light bulbs.

What is the available fault current in these situations?

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|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Michael A. Terrell
Date: May 10, 2008 13:10

Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
>
> The regulation, at least in Europe, is done at 150/15 kV substations and at
> the HV side of the transformers, thus at 150 kV. Typical current for 2 x 25
> MVA transformers is 150 A, 150 kV and of course secondary at 15 kV, 1500 A.
> The regulation is done automatically with tap changers, live. The local
> transformers at your neighborhood are fixed tap, 15 kV (they intend to
> change everything to 20 kV).

So they have developed 100%% efficient transformers?

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1 Comment
Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Michael A. Terrell
Date: May 10, 2008 13:12

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
> In article ,
> "Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" writes:
>>
>> ? "Andrew Gabriel" cucumber.demon.co.uk> ?????? ??? ??????
>> news:48246da4$0$657$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>>> In article ,
>>> "James Sweet" hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> It's not 110V, it's 240V, we simply split it with a grounded center tap
>>>> which gives 120V between each side and neutral, or 240V between the
>>>> sides..
>>>
>>> It's the regulation at 120V which people notice.
>>> If you want to call it a 240V supply, then you
>>> need to call EU supplies 400V or 415V. That's
>>> equally misleading.
>>>
>>>> There's no transformer per house, except rural applications. Generally ...
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: James Sweet
Date: May 10, 2008 13:40

>
> The central air kicks on without my lights dimming, and I am in North
> Central Florica.
>
>

Mine dim slightly for an instant when my 3 ton heat pump kicks in, it's
only noticeable with the few incandescent lights left in the house
though. The LRA on that thing is something like 90A. I think most of the
drop must be in the 50' or so of 2/0 AL wire between the meter base and
the transformer though as they don't seem to dim at all from any of the
neighbors.
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: Roy
Date: May 10, 2008 16:33

Date: Sat, May 10, 2008, 4:10pm
From: mike.terrell@earthlink.net (Michael A. Terrell)
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
The regulation, at least in Europe, is done at 150/15 kV substations and
at the HV side of the transformers, thus at 150 kV. Typical current for
2 x 25 MVA transformers is 150 A, 150 kV and of course secondary at 15
kV, 1500 A. The regulation is done automatically with tap changers,
live. The local transformers at your neighborhood are fixed tap, 15 kV
(they intend to change everything to 20 kV).
      So they have developed 100%% efficient transformers?
--
They're robots in disguise }:)

Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
[have tools, will travel]
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Re: 280V motor on 230V circuit         


Author: phil-news-nospam
Date: May 10, 2008 17:23

In alt.engineering.electrical Michael A. Terrell earthlink.net> wrote:

| The central air kicks on without my lights dimming, and I am in North
| Central Florica.

I bet it's on its own branch circuit, too.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |
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