> MobiusDick wrote:
>
> THC and related compounds tend to accumulate in the brain
>
> will they desolve over time? with lowering/ stoping smokeing pot?
>
>
> l
>

>> Because of the Volume of Distribution of the cannabinoids and the
>> multicompartment models of how cannabinoids are distributed throughout
>> the body, THC and related compounds tend to accumulate in the brain
>> and liver. There is some accumulation in adipose tissue, but in
>> general, unless you are losing or gaining weight, there is not that
>> great of perfusion of blood in these areas compared to the brain and
>> liver. The situation is analogous to arterial plaque formation, but
>> since cholesterol does not behave quite the same way as the
>> cannabinoids at the blood brain barrier, and since the cannabinoids are
>> not actively made in the liver, and since all orally absorbed
>> cholesterol passes through the liver before going into the systemic
>> circulation, you do not find THC plaques on the arterial walls. So
>> this is probably related why there are not THC plaques everywhere. Also
>> remember that pot is smoked and if large amounts were taken orally over
>> long periods of time, there may be more similarity. Cholesterol is the
>> starting material for many hormones and in that sense, it is actively
>> transported to a much greater extent than cannabinoids. Expecting
>> cholesterol and cannabinoids to behave similarly in the systemic
>> circulation is not very realistic because there are so many differences
>> in so far as the way the two behave in the body from a purely chemical
>> perspective (forgetting about pharmacology for a minute.)
>>
>> As far as the etiology of working memory loss, you cannot assume
>> causality just because there is resin in the brains of many heavy pot
>> users, and they have poorer working memories as a population. You
>> cannot make the leap and say that A is the cause of B. But they do
>> correlate with one another.
>>
>> If I can find some of the imaging data around here I will try to email
>> it to you, but this is an opiates lab and it will be like finding a
>> needle in a haystack. I have a copy of Brain Research with a great
>> article on this issue and if I get some time I will try to find it and
>> send you a copy.
>>
>> I knew this would open a can of worms whenever anyone blasphemes the
>> precious ganja, there is hell to pay.
>>
>> MobiusDick
>> creamedbrainsontoast wrote:

>>> "MobiusDick" wrote:
>>>

>>>> I am speaking euphemistically. You get tar like deposits that remind me
>>>> of bong resin in the brain, liver and other fatty areas of the body. It
>>>> is not literally bong resin, it is fat soluble cannabinol derivatives
>>>> that precipitate out of the blood in these fatty areas due to the
>>>> thermodynamics of hydrophobic interactions (and London forces and all
>>>> those other physical chemistry terms that are beyond the scope of this
>>>> discussion --although if you want to get into the PChem of it, we can.

>>>
>>> is the mechanism akin to the deposition of fatty acids in the bloodstream
>>> as in coronary artery disease or the liver in steatosis? if you've got
>>> any pictures sitting around of some of these deposits, i'd be curious to
>>> look at them. it seems like one would have to smoke *a lot* (i'll be
>>> technical here -- a metric shittonne) of the pot in order to end up with
>>> any sort of significant deposits of cannabinoids forming anywhere. in any
>>> case, i'd expect them to disperse themselves pretty evenly throughout the
>>> adipose and brain tissue and whereever else lots of fat hangs out (i
>>> imagine a bunch of triacylglycerides leaning against a wall somewhere,
>>> waiting for passers-by so they can pop out their switchblades and mug
>>> them. what is wrong with me? must be all the dope i smoked in years
>>> past). but, i'm not especially versed in the thermodynamic properties of
>>> cannabinoids vis-a-vis the other lipophilic/hydrophobic compounds that
>>> stone cold chill in the body, jus' doing they thang.
>>>
>>> and thanks, but no thanks, for the pchem lecture.
>>>

>>>> These deposits in the brain disrupt neuronal transmission and probably
>>>> have something to do with why working memory (once known as short term
>>>> memory) is so grossly affected in heavy users after a long period of
>>>> time.

>>>
>>> again, i'd be curious to see these deposits for myself, and to know how
>>> much of the grass these cats were blowing, or if they did other shit that
>>> might have caused neurological deficits. i do know that if you wait long
>>> enough, even without doing any (recreational) drugs, your memory starts
>>> to hit the fritz anyways. my intuition is that people that smoke the
>>> reefers, over a period of years to decades, and get used to living in a
>>> stoned haze, when they finally stop and wait a couple of months for the
>>> accumulated cannibinoids to get completely flushed out of their body and
>>> discover that their memory isn't as sharp as it was before they started
>>> smoking the doobie to begin with, they're liable to blame the ganja for
>>> the loss of their short-term memory, when in fact they're no more
>>> forgetful than anyone else their age, give or take.
>>>
>>> i've seen a similar phenomenon happen with people who do varying amounts
>>> of drugs for varying amounts of time and then once they decide to go
>>> straight they feel like their cognition isn't as sharp as it used to be,
>>> or their memory isn't as keen, or what have you. but it's impossible to
>>> say for sure that it is in fact the result of neurological damage wrought
>>> by "drug abuse" and not one of a myriad of other things that could have
>>> come in to play, the simplest of which is that they just over-estimate
>>> their pre-drug cognitive abilities and fail to compensate for the passage
>>> of time. another thing is if one goes from keeping their mind busy with
>>> something that is mentally demanding and then spend a while eating
>>> cheetos and playing grand theft auto while doing bong rips every 20
>>> minutes, their cognitive abilities are going to decline (except for the
>>> ability to shoot a bunch of cops and grab the tank and go find a corner
>>> of the map where they can blow shit up unmolested for hours at a time)
>>> simply from disuse. it's like suddenly stopping a rigorous exercise
>>> regime and laying in bed for a few months and wondering why when you try
>>> to get out of bed finally your muscles have atrophied.
>>>
>>> i worry that automatically assuming that any sort of cognitive decline,
>>> real or imagined, that appears (or seems to appear) over the course of
>>> one's drug-using career, and (seems to) continue(s) after going straight
>>> simply makes it more difficult for people to move on with their lives.
>>> it's very possible to feel sluggish and retarded without being either,
>>> but believing that you feel sluggish and retarded and can't think as well
>>> as you used to because of drugs and they've crippled you for life is a
>>> pretty well self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>>> But the general point is that heavy pot use is far from harmless. Oral
>>>> opiates, without acetaminophen or ibuprofen, have a much milder long
>>>> term effect on the body and brain over time that pot does (not to say
>>>> that opiates cannot ruin your life easier than pot can, but
>>>> physiologically there is not any real irreversible damage done.

>>>
>>> and "MobiusDick" later spake:
>>>

>>>> But as far as marijuana being harmless, that depends on what you mean
>>>> by harmless. Does it cause pathophysiological changes with heavy use?
>>>> Putatively yes. Is it as addictive as heroin and does it cause people
>>>> to go into severe withdrawal. No. THC withdrawal is minor due to its
>>>> long duration of action (unless precipitated by a CB antagonist, where
>>>> it is fairly severe.)

>>>
>>> do you know of any journal articles about dosing potheads with cb
>>> antagonists to see what happens? have they done human trials with them
>>> yet? i've read about what happens when you do it to mice. as far as long-
>>> term problems from the doob, they seem to be less severe than you'd
>>> think, especially with regards to the respiratory tract. it's pretty
>>> well-established (imo) that smoking cannabis alone doesn't increase the
>>> risk of lung cancer or copd significantly over baseline, and may well
>>> have a protective effect. compare that to the effects of tobacco use on
>>> lung function. as for the rest of the body, i haven't seen as much
>>> research, but i have the feeling that, except for the hardest of the
>>> hardcore potheads out there, any negative sequelae to their dope-smokin'
>>> ways are pretty minor. certainly less than those associated with alcohol
>>> or tobacco, or high-dose, long-term methamphetamine use.
>>>
>>> but this is a hard drugs group, and it's time to stfu about pot. like you
>>> say, opioids are about as safe a class of drugs as there exist today. the
>>> withdrawal syndrome is a bitch, and their illegality makes balancing a
>>> habit with the rest of one's life much, much, much more difficult than it
>>> otherwise would be, or should be, but neither of those is so much a
>>> result of the substances themselves as it is of their political
>>> situation. [w/r/t w/ds, i mean that given effectively unlimited access to
>>> opioids, no one would have to go through withdrawal unless they wanted
>>> to, unlike today where supply is so tightly restricted]. except for --
>>> what -- constipation? miosis? -- someone can be physically dependent on
>>> opioids for their entire life and not suffer any ill effects from the
>>> habit. i don't know any other class of drugs that are so remarkably
>>> without toxic effects when used over extended periods of time.
>>>
>>> now, if only we could start treating addiction as a sociopolitical
>>> problem instead of a biological one or a criminal one....
>>>
>>> --
>>> -creamedbrainsontoast
>>> "One tablespoon of butter, one egg yolk, one scant tablespoon of flour,
>>> salt and pepper to season, half cup of milk, three-fourths pound of
>>> brains. Parboil the brains. When cool, salt to taste and chop in small
>>> pieces. Cook flour and butter in double boiler; add milk and beaten egg
>>> yolk and stir slowly into butter and flour, add seasoning and brains.
>>> Cook about three minutes and serve on toast."