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Group: alt.athiesm · Group Profile
Author: Pastor Frank
Date: Apr 24, 2008 08:20

"John Baker" bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:i0sr041g7gh1usl33ibcknfk6vs7n0u3a5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:38:17 -0700, DanielSan
> gmail.com> wrote:
>>Pastor Frank wrote:
>>> "Davej" hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:247b3d44-aadf-4da7-877f-e8e7db1900a1@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Apr 20, 9:57 am, "Apocalypse" NoSpam.Com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not make the sensational claim about prrof of early life being
>>>>> simple.
>>>>> It's just another foundational lie your house of cards has been built
>>>>> upon.
>>>>> Please provide irrefutable scientific evidence for this claim that the
>>>>> earliest living organisms were *simple*.
>>>> Irrefutable? You mean like opening up an old book and pointing to a
>>>> particular paragraph? How simple do you need to get? Blue-green algae
>>>> is much simpler than a worm or a crustacean or a giraffe. There is
>>>> plenty of evidence that blue-green algae was one of the earliest
>>>> lifeforms.
>>>> If you want a "sensational claim" then open up the Bible. It is filled
>>>> with them.
>>>
>>> That's not so. You presumption, that everything just happened all by
>>> itself as if by miracle, and without any intelligent designer, IS the
>>> "sensational claim".
>>
>>...with mountains of evidence to support it.
>>
>>I wish you'd complete your sentences.
>
> Give him time. He needs to learn to complete his thoughts first.
>
Unfortunately not all is supported by "mountains of evidence". There is
more evidence for ID, than for speciation and that view is supported by
"mountains of" scientists. See below

Pastor Frank

http://evolution-facts.org/introductory_scientists_speak_about_evolution_1.htm

"A growing number of respectable scientists are defecting from the
evolutionist camp ... moreover, for the most part these 'experts' have
abandoned Darwinism, not on the basis of religious faith or biblical
persuasions, but on scientific and statistical grounds, and in some
instances, regretfully."
-- Wolfgang Smith, Ph.D., physicist and mathematician

"Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing
in the progress of science. It is useless."
-- Bounoure, Le Monde Et La Vie (October 1963) [Director of Research
at the National center of Scientific Research in France].

"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great
con-men, And the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever."
-- Dr. T. N. Tahmisian, Atomic Energy Commission, USA

"In conclusion, evolution is not observable, repeatable, nor refutable, and
thus does not qualify as either a scientific fact nor theory."
-- Dr. David N.Menton, PhD in Biology from Brown University

"The Darwinian theory of descent has not a single fact to confirm it in the
realm of nature. It is not the result of scientific research, but purely the
product of imagination."
-- Dr. Fleischman [Erlangen zoologist].

"It is almost invariably assumed that animals with bodies composed of a
single cell represent the primitive animals from which all others derived.
They are commonly supposed to have preceded all other animal types in their
appearance. There is not the slightest basis for this assumption."
-- Austin Clark, The New Evolution (1930), pp. 235-236.

"The hypothesis that life has developed from inorganic matter is, at
present, still an article of faith."
-- J.W.N. Sullivan, The Limitations of Science (1933), p. 95.

"Where are we when presented with the mystery of life? We find ourselves
facing a granite wall which we have not even chipped . . We know virtually
nothing of growth, nothing of life."
-- W. Kaempffert, "The Greatest Mystery of All: The Secret of Life,"
New York Times.

"The theory of evolution is totally inadequate to explain the origin and
manifestation of the organic world."
-- Sir John Ambrose Fleming, F.R.S., quoted in H. Enoch, Evolution
or Creation (1966), p. 91 [discoverer of the thermionic valve].

"I think, however, that we must go further than this and admit that the only
acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to
physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we
do not like if the experimental evidence supports it."
-- H. Lipson, "A Physicist Looks at Evolution," Physics Bulletin, 31
(1980), p. 138.

"I am not satisfied that Darwin proved his point or that his influence in
scientific and public thinking has been beneficial . . the success of
Darwinism was accomplished by a decline in scientific integrity."
-- W.R. Thompson, Introduction to *Charles Darwin's, Origin of the
Species [Canadian scientist].

"One of the determining forces of scientism was a fantastic accidental
imagination which could explain every irregularity in the solar system
without explanation, leap the gaps in the atomic series without evidence [a
gap required by the Big Bang theory], postulate the discovery of fossils
which have never been discovered, and prophesy the success of breeding
experiments which have never succeeded. Of this kind of science it might
truly be said that it was `knowledge falsely so called."
-- David C.C. Watson, The Great Brain Robbery (1976).

"The hold of the evolutionary paradigm [theoretical system] is so powerful
that an idea which is more like a principle of medieval astrology than a
serious twentieth century scientific theory has become a reality for
evolutionary biologists."
--Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 306
[Australian molecular biologist].

"The particular truth is simply that we have no reliable evidence as to the
evolutionary sequence . . One can find qualified professional arguments for
any group being the descendant of almost any other."
-- J. Bonner, "Book Review," American Scientist, 49:1961, p. 240.

"It was because Darwinian theory broke man's link with God and set him
adrift in a cosmos without purpose or end that its impact was so
fundamental. No other intellectual revolution in modern times . . so
profoundly affected the way men viewed themselves and their place in the
universe."
-- Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 67
[Australian molecular biologist].

"I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning, consequently
assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying
reasons for this assumption . . The philosopher who finds no meaning in the
world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is
also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he personally should
not do as he wants to do . . For myself, as no doubt for most of my
contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an
instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously
liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from
a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it
interfered with our sexual mores."
-- Aldous Huxley, "Confessions of a Professed Atheist," Report:
Perspective on the News, Vol. 3, June 1966, p. 19 [grandson of evolutionist
Thomas Huxley, Darwin's closest friend and promoter, and brother of
evolutionist Julian Huxley. Aldous Huxley was one of the most influential
liberal writers of the 20th century].

"As by this theory, innumerable transitional forms must have existed. Why do
we not find them embedded in the crust of the earth? Why is not all nature
in confusion [of halfway species] instead of being, as we see them,
well-defined species?"
-- Charles Darwin, quoted in H. Enoch, Evolution or Creation (1966),
p. 139.

"`Creation,' in the ordinary sense of the word, is perfectly conceivable. I
find no difficulty in conceiving that, at some former period, this universe
was not in existence; and that it made its appearance in six days . . in
consequence of the volition of some pre-existing Being."
-- Thomas Huxley, quoted in *Leonard Huxley, Life and Letters of
Thomas Henry Huxley, Vol. II (1903), p. 429.

"The theory of evolution suffers from grave defects, which are more and more
apparent as time advances. It can no longer square with practical scientific
knowledge."
-- Albert Fleishmann, Zoologist.

"I argue that the `theory of evolution' does not take predictions, so far as
ecology is concerned, but is instead a logical formula which can be used
only to classify empiricisms [theories] and to show the relationships which
such a classification implies . . these theories are actually tautologies
and, as such, cannot make empirically testable predictions. They are not
scientific theories at all."
-- R.H. Peters, "Tautology in Evolution and Ecology," American
Naturalist (1976), Vol. 110, No. 1, p. 1 [emphasis his].

"No fossils have been found that can be considered transitional between the
major groups or phyla. From the beginning, these organisms were just clearly
and distinctly set apart from each other as they are today. Instead of
finding a record of fine graduations preserved in the fossil record, we
invariably find large gaps. This fact is absolutely FATAL to the general
theory of evolution."
-- Scott M. Huges. PH.D

"Gould and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say
THERE ARE NO TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS."
-- Dr. Colin Patterson, senior paleontologist, British Museum of
Natural History. Dr. Colin Patterson was the senior paleontologist and
editor of the prestigious journal of the British Museum of Natural History.
He wrote in a letter, that he didn't know of any real evidence of
evolutionary transitions either among living or fossilized organisms.
-- "Darwin's Enigma" by Luther Sunderland ch.1

"One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, was..
it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and
there was not one thing I knew about it. That's quite a shock to learn that
one can be so misled so long, so for the last few weeks I have tried putting
a simple question to various people and groups of people.
Question is: Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one
thing that is true?
I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of
Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on
the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of
Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was
silence for a long time and eventually one person said: "I do know one
thing -- it ought not to be taught in high school."
-- Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Palaeontologist, British Museum of
Natural History, Keynote address at the American Museum of Natural History,
NYC.

"Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only
alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable."
-- Sir Arthur Keith, author of the forward to the 100th anniversary
edition of "Origin of Species" in 1959

Random chance cannot account for the complex design of DNA. It is
statistically and mathematically impossible. In the last 30 years, a number
of prominent scientists have attempted to calculate the odds that a
free-living, single-celled organism, such as a bacterium, might result by
the chance combining of preexistent building blocks. Harold Morowitz
calculated the odds as one chance in 10100,000,000,000 (ten to the one
hundred billionth power). Sir Fred Hoyle calculated the odds that just the
proteins of an amoebae arising by chance as one chance in 1040,000 (ten to
the forty thousandth power). The odds calculated by Morowitz and Hoyle are
staggering. Think of it this way, the chances of winning the state lottery
every week of your life from the age of 18 to 99 are better than the odds of
a single-celled organism being formed by random chance. The probability of
spontaneous generation is about the same as the probability that a tornado
sweeping through a junkyard could assemble a 747 from the contents therein.
It is impossible. The evidence all points to the unavoidable conclusion that
we not the product of chance or evolution, but the result of intelligent
design.
-- Francis Collins, who Cracked the Genome said: I've found God. -
The Sunday Times - Wikipedia Evolution and Creation Studies - Koinonia
House. In The Beginning There Was...Information - Audio CD - eNews Special
Offer

(Re: Biogenesis)
"There are only two possible explanations as to how life arose.
Spontaneous generation arising to evolution or a supernatural creative act
of God. ..There is no other possibility. Spontaneous generation was
scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others, but that
just leaves us with only one other possibility ..that life came as a
supernatural act of creation by God, but I can't accept that philosophy
because I do not want to believe in God.
Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically
impossible, spontaneous generation leading to evolution."
-- George Wald, "Origin, Life and Evolution," Scientific American
(1978). Quoted in Joe White and Nicholas Comninellis, Darwin's Demise: Why
Evolution Can't Take the Heat (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2001), p.46
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/12-20-06.asp#_ftn5
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

"My attempts to demonstrate evolution by an experiment carried on for more
than 40 years have completely failed."
-- N.H.Nilson, famous botanist and evolutionist

"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting
the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light
and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have
been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the
highest degree."
-- Charles Darwin, Origin of Species, chapter "Difficulties"

"Under slightly reducing conditions, the Miller-Urey action does not produce
amino acids, nor does it produce the chemicals that may serve as the
predecessors of other important biopolymer building blocks. Thus, by
challenging the assumption of a reducing atmosphere, we challenge the very
existence of the "prebiotic soup", with its richness of biologically
important organic compounds. Moreover, so far, no geochemical evidence for
the existence of a prebiotic soup has been published. Indeed, a number of
scientists have challenged the prebiotic soup concept, noting that even if
it existed, the concentration of organic building blocks in it would have
been too small to be meaningful for prebiotic evolution."
--Noam Lahav (1999) Biogenesis: Theories of Life's Origins Oxford
University Press, 1999, p138-139

"There is no agreement on the extent to which metabolism could develop
independently of a genetic material. In my opinion, there is no basis in
known chemistry for the belief that long sequences of reactions can organize
spontaneously -- and every reason to believe that they cannot. The problem
of achieving sufficient specificity, whether in aqueous solution or on the
surface of a mineral, is so severe that the chance of closing a cycle of
reactions as complex as the reverse citric acid cycle, for example, is
negligible." Orgel, Leslie (1998) "The origin of life -- a review of facts
and speculations,"
--Trends in Biochemical Sciences, 23 (Dec 1998): 491-495. (pp. 494-495)

"Not one change of species into another is on record ... we cannot prove
that a single species has been changed."
-- Charles Darwin, My Life & Letters

"A growing number of respectable scientists are defecting from the
evolutionist camp ... moreover, for the most part these 'experts' have
abandoned Darwinism, not on the basis of religious faith or biblical
persuasions, but on scientific grounds, and in some instances,
regretfully."
-- Wolfgang Smith, Ph.D., physicist and mathematician

"The only competing explanation for the order we all see in the biological
world is the notion of Special Creation."
-- Niles Eldridge, PhD., palaeontologist and evolutionist, American
Museum of Natural History

"However, the macromolecule-to-cell transition is a jump of fantastic
dimensions, which lies beyond the range of testable hypothesis. In this
area, all is conjecture The available facts do not provide a basis for
postulating that cells arose on this planet .... We simply wish to point out
the fact that there is no scientific evidence."
-- David Green and Robert Goldberger (1967) Molecular Insights Into the
Living Process New York: Academic Press, pp. 406-407 (David Green is a
biochemist at the University of Wisconsin. Robert Goldberger is a biochemist
at the National Institute of Health

"The more scientists have searched for the transitional forms that lie
between species, the more they have been frustrated."
-- John Adler with John Carey: Is Man a Subtle Accident, Newsweek,
Vol.96, No.18 (November 3, 1980, p.95)

"The entire hominid collection known today would barely cover a billiard
table, but it has spawned a science because it is distinguished by two
factors which inflate its apparent relevance far beyond its merits. First,
the fossils hint at the ancestry of a supremely self- important animal -
ourselves. Secondly, the collection is so tantalisingly incomplete, and the
specimens themselves often so fragmented and inconclusive, that more can be
said about what is missing than about what is present. Hence the amazing
quantity of literature on the subject ever since Darwin's work inspired the
notion that fossils linking modern man and extinct ancestor would provide
the most convincing proof of human evolution, preconceptions have led
evidence by the nose in the study of fossil man."
-- John Reader, Whatever Happened to Zinjanthropus? New Scientist Vol.
89, No.12446 (March 26,1981) pp 802-805

"That a mindless, purposeless, chance process such as natural selection,
acting on the sequels of recombinant DNA or random mutation, most of which
are injurious or fatal, could fabricate such complexity and organisation as
the vertebrate eye, where each component part must carry out its own
distinctive task in a harmoniously functioning optical unit, is
inconceivable. The absence of transitional forms between the invertebrates
retina and that of the vertebrates poses another difficulty. Here there is a
great gulf fixed which remains inviolate with no seeming likelihood of ever
being bridged. The total picture speaks of intelligent creative design of an
infinitely high order."
-- H.S.Hamilton (MD) The Retina of the Eye - An Evolutionary Road Block

"Once we see, however, that the probability of life originating at random is
so utterly minuscule as to make the random concept absurd, it becomes
sensible to think that the favourable properties of physics, on which life
depends, are in every respect deliberate...
-- Sir Fred Hoyle

"Is it really credible that random processes could have constructed a
reality, the smallest element of which - a functional protein or gene - is
complex beyond ... anything produced by the intelligence of man?"
-- Molecular biologist Michael Denton, Evolutionist: A Theory in Crisis
(London: Burnett Books, 1985) p 342

"Between a living cell and the most highly ordered non-biological system,
such as a crystal or a snowflake, there is a chasm as vast and absolute as
it is possible to conceive."
--Denton, Michael Evolution: A Theory in Crisis Bethesda, MD: Adler and
Adler Publishers, Inc., 1986 pp. 249-250

"I believe that Darwin's mechanism for evolution doesn't explain much of
what is seen under a microscope. Cells are simply to complex to have evolved
randomly. Intelligence was required to produce them."
-- Michael J. Behe

"Molecular evolution is not based on scientific authority. There is no
publication in the scientific literature in prestigious journals, specialty
journals, or books that describes how molecular evolution of any real,
complex, biochemical system either did occur or even might have occurred.
There are assertions that such evolution occurred, but absolutely none are
supported by pertinent experiments or calculations."
--Behe, Michael J. (1996) Darwin's Black Box The Free Press, p. 185

"None of five museum officials could offer a single example of a
transitional series of fossilised organisms that would document the
transformation of one basically different type to another."
-- Luther Sunderland, science researcher

"Modern apes ... seem to have sprung out of nowhere. They have no yesterday,
no fossil record. And the true origin of modern humans ... is, if we are to
be honest with ourselves, an equally mysterious matter."
-- Lyall Watson, Ph.D., Evolutionist

"It is easy enough to make up stories, of how one form gave rise to another,
and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection.
But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting
them to the test."
-- Luther D Sutherland, Darwin's Enigma, Master Books 1988, p89

"The universe and the laws of physics seem to have been specificlly designed
for us."
-- Stephen Hawking

"The evolutionist thesis has become more stringently unthinkable than ever
before."
-- Wolfgang Smith Ph.D.

"Eighty to eighty-five percent of earth's land surface does not have even 3
geological periods appearing in 'correct' consecutive order ... it becomes
an overall exercise of gargantuan special pleading and imagination for the
evolutionary-uniformitarian paradigm to maintain that there ever were
geologic periods."
-- John Woodmorappe, geologist

"The theory of evolution suffers from grave defects, which are more and more
apparent as time advances. It can no longer square with practical scientific
knowledge."
-- Dr A Fleishmann, Zoologist, Erlangen University

"It is good to keep in mind ... that nobody has ever succeeded in producing
even one new species by the accumulation of micromutations. Darwin's theory
of natural selection has never had any proof, yet it has been universally
accepted."
-- Prof. R Goldschmidt PhD, DSc Prof. Zoology, University of Calif. in
Material Basis of Evolution Yale Univ. Press

"The theory of the transmutation of species is a scientific mistake, untrue
in its facts, unscientific in its method, and mischievous in its tendency."
-- Prof. J Agassiz, of Harvard in Methods of Study in Natural History

"Evolution is baseless and quite incredible."
-- Dr Ambrose Fleming, President, British Assoc. Advancement of Science,
in The Unleashing of Evolutionary Thought

"Overwhelming strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around
us ... The atheistic idea is so nonsensical that I cannot put it into
words."
-- Lord Kelvin, Vict. Inst., 124, p267

"We have to admit that there is nothing in the geological records that runs
contrary to the views of conservative creationists."
-- Evolutionist Edmund Ambrose

"No matter how numerous they may be, mutations do not produce any kind of
evolution."
-- Pierre-Paul Grasse, Evolutionist

See extensive list of names of scientists who do not believe in
Darwinism in:
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id...
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