> "john w @yahoo.com>" wrote in message
> news:uatb54tjm9gcsahidvj3ovlos8aqgq6i02@4ax.com...

>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:29:51 -0700 (PDT), "Carl Sagan's billions"
>> yahoo.com> wrote:
>> © 2008 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
>> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

>>> When I was in my younger years I struggled for a long time trying
>>> to understand Christianity, God, Jesus, Satan, Genesis, etc.
>>>
>>> I struggled mightily trying to understand the basic doctrines, the
>>> core beliefs, the philosophies, the essence, the teachings
>>> and also the contradictions in Old versus New Testament.
>>>
>>> And the behavior of warrior so-called Christian nations, colonizing
>>> or wreaking other havoc in non-Christian countries (and now again
>>> conducting horrible bombing wars on non-Christian people
>>> in Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia).
>>>
>>> And the Genesis creation story, Adam and Eve the first couple, Noah,
>>> the flood, the many prophets, the Messiah, the crucifixion, the
>>> resurrection, revelations, and the many other stories and prophecies
>>> in the Bible.
>>>
>>> Then slowly (over maybe some 5 years) I came to understand several
>>> truths described below. These truths enabled me to gradually throw
>>> off the yoke, the blinders and the intellectual shackles imposed by
>>> a long childhood indoctrination in Christianity.
>>>
>>> And amazingly but steadily and happily and irreversibly
>>> I BECAME FREE ----- FOREVER ------!
>>>
>>> That was still pretty dramatic, e.g., when I read Robinson's
>>> Honest-to-God and his brave search for answers (searches
>>> beyond the usual Christian dogmas) I cried and shivered.
>>> He enabled me to see the first glimmer of light and hope
>>> in my own search: To think 'out of the (Christian) box,
>>> to no longer feel restricted by ancient 'holy' books.
>>>
>>> So my struggle changed from thinking solely about what
>>> was written in the past (Bible) and trying to make sense
>>> out of it, to thinking about what makes sense - to me.
>>>
>>> This was followed later by thinking about Teilhard de Chardin's
>>> fantastic and elaborate ideas of increasing complexity, Dobzhansky's
>>> books on evolution, Bertrand Russell's courage, wisdom and ideas,
>>> books on comparative religion, and many others.
>>>
>>> 'There was no need to struggle anymore - forever':
>>>
>>> Not due to surrender, but due to liberation: Liberation from
>>> irrationality, illogic and indoctrination in ancient religious
>>> beliefs.
>>>
>>> I understood ---- and (as happened with Galileo when he understood
>>> the earth position and path in the solar system) these insights
>>> and this freedom was really irreversible. I understood why religions
>>> develop in any human tribe or culture, and with those insights
>>> the hold of mental slavery in the form of Christianity
>>> (and the philosophies of closely related and very very similar
>>> mono-theistic religions Islam and Judaism)
>>> was broken - - forever.
>>>
>>> The mind broke free and I was off flying unencumbered.
>>> No longer mentally stunted, no longer kept in intellectual captivity,
>>> no longer bogged down in difficult struggles and confusion about
>>> what was written in ancient 'holy' books and derived books.
>>>
>>> These are the 10 basic (simplified) truths I came to understand:
>>>
>>> 1. All religions and gods are 'man' made, made and made up
>>> by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result of new
>>> ideas and concepts accompanying the development of
>>> various cultures. These ideas evolved over generations and were
>>> influenced by other religions and cultures and people migrations,
>>> then were gradually accepted, adapted, embellished and written
>>> down as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life, the (new)
>>> gospel, the (new) 'true' religion.
>>>
>>> 2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable.
>>>
>>> Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution
>>> was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal)
>>> suddenly inserted in a certain species and at a discrete point in
>>> time.
>>>
>>> If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living
>>> being, e.g., 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his
>>> or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.

>> I'm taking a WILD stab here. I'm guessing that your "premise" (if
>> you actually have one) is that
>> Any thoughtful, relatively intelligent person who
>> 1. reads what you've read
>> 2. experience what you've experienced
>> 3. been to the lectures you've attended
>> 4. goes through essentially the same "thought processes" you have
>> gone through
>> would come to your "conclusions."
>>
>> How arrogant!
>>
>> I am actually pretty well educated. A BA degree from a top liberal
>> arts university (Cal State U Northridge), several years of
>> post-graduate work.
>>
>> What happened all through my university and grad school years was
>> CONSTANT attacks and "challenges" of my faith by those who had NO
>> faith.
>> Unlike you, I didn't blindly accept the "non-faith" of my
>> professors.
>> I actually challenged THEM. In fact, one of my profs who had
>> attacked my beliefs in God, Christ, and the Bible
>> later came to ME, apologized, and told me that he "had once again
>> found his faith in Jesus Christ, the only LIVING Deity" because of my
>> boldness.
>>
>> I'd say, rather than "discovering profound truth," you FOLDED.
>>
>> Contrary to what you wish to believe, there is considerable evidence
>> for Christianity, for God, and for the Bible.
>>
>> If you only bother to SEEK it.
>>
>> "If you seek, you will find."
>>
>> Sounds very much like you took the easy way out.
>>
>> Growth, learning, the acquiring of actual KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM is
>> not an easy journey, and is certainly not for the intellectual / moral
>> coward you seem to be.
>>
>> I've had FEW professors I didn't challenge, and I won MOST of those
>> challenges.
>>
>> Let me give you one example:
>>
>> I was sitting in class one day when a total FLAKE professor (had a
>> Ph D, so we had to call him "Dr Flake) was attacking Christianity and
>> the Bible with the following ridiculous comment.
>>
>> "The Bible makes absurd comments such as" Money is the root of all
>> evil." Which we ALL know is ridiculous. That's why (still quoting),
>> no INTELLIGENT person can believe the Bible."
>>
>> I raised my hand.
>>
>> He called on me, "Mr Weatherly. You have a comment?"
>>
>> "Yes, sir, Dr Flake; you mis-quoted the Bible. It doesn't say that."
>>
>> He glared at me. How DARE a mere undergrad correct him?
>>
>> "It doesn't?"
>>
>> Once I'd jumped his back, a few other Christian students who hadn't
>> had the courage to confront him sounded off, "No, Dr Flake, the Bible
>> doesn't say that!"
>>
>> I then said, "You have misquoted."
>>
>> "Well, Mr Weatherly," he glared, your assignment is to come to class
>> WITH YOUR BIBLE next session and read for us what it DOES say!"
>>
>> I did. "The LOVE of money (he'd left out the key word "Love") is
>> the cause of all sorts of evil."
>>
>> Because I DARED correct Dr Flake, he gave me a D for my final grade
>> for his class.
>>
>> But I proved him wrong.
>>
>> Perhaps he gained a WEE bit of appreciation and respect for
>> Christians after that day.
>>
>> You truly can't attack a book (the Bible) that you've never read.
>>
>> And I'm BETTING you've never actually READ it; likely, you simply
>> used someone ELSE's notes to "search for the "" mistakes and
>> contradictions.""
>>
>> A smarter, more sincere "student" would take the time to "unravel
>> the mysteries" that may APPEAR to be """ errors and
>> contradictions."""
>>
>> john w

>
> You really are extremely rude. Even if the above
> story is true, no student should humiliate his
> teacher or professor in front of an entire class.
> What you should have done was ask to speak to
> him after the class and politely explain that his
> quote was incomplete. If he was any kind of
> teacher, he would appreciate this information
> and mention it in the next class. Of course, you
> made him look like a fool, so this wouldn't be
> expected. If you did get a D in such a course,
> you probably deserved it.