... the dogma - current / modern epicyclic gearboxes, fronted with a torque convertor are no longer intrinsically "automatic" as their previously, solely hydraulic ... engine to final drive is automatic and for much the same ... than automatic epicyclic gearboxes for being based on manual gearbox designs,... capabilities of the various, current gearboxes. While ignoring existing logical use ...

... of ignorance over how modern automatics work, whilst at the same ... want to attempt to put words in my mouth, then fine...everything external - to which both gearboxes will /still/ do nothing. Unless...that ancestors of modern conventional automatics could be autonomous, is somewhat...DSG operate as an entirely manual gearbox. Are you seeing a...

...autos. It wasn't just worded badly, it was simply plain...conventional autos could still behave automatically, were the ECU removed. In...everything external - to which both gearboxes will /still/ do nothing. Unless...that ancestors of modern conventional automatics could be autonomous, is somewhat...DSG operate as an entirely manual gearbox. Are you seeing a...

... of ignorance over how modern automatics work, whilst at the same ...clinging to the designation of "automatic" for current conventional autos - they...conventional autos could still behave automatically, were the ECU removed. In...that ancestors of modern conventional automatics could be autonomous, is somewhat...DSG operate as an entirely manual gearbox. Are you seeing a...

... some insisting that because constant mesh gearboxes now can have benefit of ... gear selection that makes such gearboxes automatic in the same way that epicyclic + torque converter gearboxes have been from introduction as ...s/ the dogma - current / modern epicyclic gearboxes, fronted with a torque convertor are no longer intrinsically "automatic" as their previously, solely hydraulic ...

... the epicyclic set in a 'conventional' auto box not constant mesh ? Constant mesh gearboxes don't have gears rotating with axes revolving around another axis. Oh, ... and selection is done separately (for eacmple by dog clutches in a 'conventional' manual box) as opposed to the early manual boxes where the gears themselves would be taken in and out of mesh as the primary means of...

....charlieoscarmike> wrote: Forget all the smoke and waffle, there - put either gearbox - current conventional auto, or DSG on a bench, and without dissassembly, you ...them in a gear. 'On a bench' entails disassembly to the basic gearbox; no oil, no power, no ancillaries. No car gearbox can be operated without oil for more than a very short time. Most synchromesh boxes these...

...to choose and select its gears automatically? And if you are selecting the...levers inside, then that's not *automatic* selection of gears. What I ..., that proves it's a manual. But by the same token ... actuators which are normally driven automatically by the control unit (whether ... /why/? Those derived from conventional automatic gearboxes with epicyclic gear train ...

... to choose and select its gears automatically? And if you are selecting the ...levers inside, then that's not *automatic* selection of gears. What I believe..., that proves it's a manual. But as we've both said... /why/? Those derived from conventional automatic gearboxes with epicyclic gear train because..., a current conventional auto is automatic, because it just is. And a...

...' entails disassembly to the basic gearbox; no oil, no power, no ancillaries...to choose and select its gears automatically? And if you are selecting the... inside, then that's not *automatic* selection of gears. OK, what .../why/? Those derived from conventional automatic gearboxes with epicyclic gear train ... a current conventional auto is automatic, because it just is. And ...